New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

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New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by AgOnNy »

Ranchers, howdy. It's been awhile (I have been doing some lurking though but time is very limited these days...hope you're all well).

As much as I love playing on my consoles in 4k and surround sound, the wife & little one are generally around. Usually the little one watches Peppa Pig on one of our mobiles but lately she has started hijacking the TV, further limiting game time. However, the wife has made a comment about me playing 'in the other room'...which I've interpreted as doing some PC gaming (will be handy as I have PC Game Pass & can use cross saves from the XBONE).

I've been out of the loop with PC hardware for quite some time and started to do some research. I have a little bit of money to play with but don't want to go stupid given the current environment, also thinking of semi future proofing by buying parts that should last some time in case I want to upgrade later. I have a BENQ PD3200U 4k monitor and a KB&M that I'm happy with. Considering building a PC from new or 'simply' hooking up an external enclosure with GPU to my Dell XPS laptop. I prefer a sleek, minimal looking case, want performance but looking to keep cool & reduce noise rather than flashy lights that blind.

Usage as follows:
- Gaming (don't expect 4k for everything but would be nice to run as high as possible)
- Photo & video editing (Adobe Creative Suite)
- Watching/streaming movies & shows (Netflix, Hulu etc)

PC Thoughts:
- Case: Fractal Design Define R6 USB-C Mid Tower (windowed version seems to be all I can find)
- CPU: Intel i9 9900KF (hyperthreads will help with editing), the alternative is Intel i7 9700k with OC (intending to run the CPU at 5GHz)
- CPU Cooling: Corsair Hydro Series H100x 240mm liquid cooler (has white LEDs that can't be turned off...)
- GPU: Gigabyte AORUS GeForce RTX 2080 TI Xtreme (fast card but some have questioned the heft & quality), alternative ZOTAC GeForce RTX 2080 TI AMP Extreme ($200 cheaper)
- Mobo: Gigabyte Z390 AORUS Pro Wifi (don't really need the wifi as I currently connect to Google Wifi by ethernet...not sure what I should be looking for here...M2 support needed?)
- RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB DDR4 3200MHz (2 x 16GB)
- Power Supply: At least 650W
- Storage 1: Thinking 500GB SSD, partition 200GB to OS Win10/programs, remaining 300Gb for games (or go 1TB SSD and do 300GB/700GB)
- Storage 2: I have some older SATA HDs sitting around that I could use as storage for documents, photos, videos etc. Can always throw in a 2-3 TB SATA HD later
- Cost: Too much, a little over $4k but can get it under $4k with some tweaks (like i7 9700k & ZOTAC 2080 TI GPU)

Laptop Thoughts:
- Laptop: Currently have Dell XPS 15 9560, Intel i7 7700 @ 2.80GHz, 16GB RAM (can upgrade to 32GB RAM), 500GB HD
- eGPU Case (connect via Thunderbolt)
- Geforce 2080 TI (possibly same GPUs as the PC build)
- Cost: Approx $2600

I understand that performance with the laptop/GPU combo won't be as good as the PC build but believe performance/value would still be decent. It would also leave plenty of money to slap down on a new console at the end of the year (which I intend on getting regardless). If I were to build a PC in the future, I could use the RTX 2080 TI still but left with a $600 GPU enclosure sitting around. In saying all that, the PC build will be much more future proof.

Thoughts, recommendations & questions from those more knowledgeable would be awesome. Especially ways to cut down costs but keep performance :up:

Lots of love,

Ags
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by Rorschach »

I'd avoid the eGPU option - Thunderbolt is a bottleneck that cripples any card you put in it, regardless of how beefy. Moreover, laptops are inherently fragile and are a bitch to upgrade and fix. There are plenty of minimalist cases out there - Phanteks, Fractal, NZXT and Lian Li all have good options. If you are looking to maximise your money, and given your use case scenario, get an AMD 3900X. They are cheaper now than 9900Ks, are on a smaller process, have more cores and are demonstrably faster in multi-threaded applications, particularly video editing. Gaming won't take a hit at all if you are running a 2080Ti. If $4K was your budget I'd be building this:

CPU: 3900X (cooler included) - $779
MOBO: Gigabyte X570 Aorus Ultra - $499
Cooler: Corsair H100i Pro XT - $199
GPU: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC 8GB - $1299
Storage drive 1 (OS): Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe 250gig - $129
Storage drive 2 (Games): Seagate Barracuda 2TB ST2000DM008 3.5in - $99
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x16GB) 3200MHz CL16 DDR4 - $299
PSU: Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750W Power Supply - $169
Case: Phanteks Eclipse P400A Airflow D-RGB Tempered Glass Black - $149

Total: $3621 not including postage.

Some compromises there on the GPU, PSU, MOBO and case (all good, just different) and still leaves room left over for some more storage/larger storage. The 2080Ti are ridiculous in price at the moment and if you're mainly gaming on a monitor 1440p is still a good sweet spot - the 2080 Super looks like a good performer. I personally would pay extra and get the Aorus Master motherboard as it's recognised as one of the best motherboards out there. The PSU is unique, it is tiny but it performs like a full ATX unit. I did a build with it recently, the extra space in the basement it affords is a God-send. Anyway, just my two cents.

Edit - Just a note on Corsair. The are hands down the easiest CPU coolers to mount by a country mile. Noctua on the other hand are a pain in the arse.
Last edited by Rorschach on 19 Mar 2020 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by unfnknblvbl »

If you've been out of the PC hardware game for a while, you might be surprised to learn that the tables have completely flipped in the CPU market; AMD is cheaper, faster, cooler, and more secure these days. The only place where Intel still reigns is in gaming, and even then it's mostly a wash. They still lead by a little in Photoshop for now, but that's not likely to hold true when the next CS update rolls around.

And experts seem to agree that Intel has no hope of catching up in the next couple of years.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by lestat »

Since he's pairing it with a 2080ti, I'd recommend the 9900kf, still the fast gaming CPU by a good 10-15% in many cases.

Very easy to get CPU bound on a 2080Ti.

But like you mentioned, it's not as good value as an AMD 8 core, so just depends where you want to balance funds.

Definitely avoid laptop gaming, it just doesn't grow and you won't match the performance and stability of a desktop just due to thermals. Since you've been out of the loop a while just note the latest high end parts are very demanding on power and cooling, A 2080ti will sit at power limit(260-300w) constantly while gaming, all these latest gen CPUs will sit in 120-150w range while gaming on demanding titles.

So you're looking at 400w of heat constant while gaming. Also maybe up your power supply to a 750w for the 2080ti, 650 is a bit on the low side.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by Rorschach »

I’d be avoiding Intel at the moment due to security issues, plus it’s a bad value proposition. And bang for buck AMD wins in the CPU sector. The KF variant I’ve heard has issues with hyper threading in any case. If the 9900K was still around the $799 price like it was at the beginning of the year I’d say bite but it’s up around $899 now - far too much considering the 3900X is better all round performer.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by lestat »

Price went up because it's still the best Gaming CPU, which is what most people care about. I'm glad I got mine for $650 last year.

The security issues don't impact a desktop user much at all, these problems are more of an issue for cloud/virtualised servers.

10 series chips coming out soon will drop the price on 8 core 5ghz chips, since 10 core will be their flagship. The 10 core has a 5.2-5.3ghz boost clock. The dollar dropping recently though will be working against you, I expect to see part prices rise quickly soon.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by Madmya »

Sup Aggs,

Get another TV with surround for the other room. Move the One X in there. HTH
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by Rorschach »

I doubt it went up because it has to do with gaming, more Intel choking supply to direct manufacturing capability towards new chip fabrication. If $4K is a hard budget can't really afford both, the 3900X ultimately makes more sense. The benchmarks used are a but silly because the differences are in the vicinity of 10-15fps in most instances (at 1080p no less) and it becomes moot once the GPU kicks into high gear. I only know because I came close to pulling the trigger on an i9 9900k but went the 3900X because it represents far better value.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by lestat »

Not even sure you need the 12 cores, maybe a 3700x/3800x is better value.

Looking at the Series X spec where they allow devs to turn off SMT for higher clock speed, I get the feeling we won't see a big jump in thread usage, since most engines will be built around next gen consoles(7 cores available to games). Also next gen GPUs have Mesh Shaders which if you see my DX12 Ultimate thread will allow next gen titles to ramp up world detail with much less cpu usage.

I think as long as you have 8 cores you're golden for the next several years. Most of the time with my 9900k, the cpu is only being used 30% of the time at framerates over 144fps, still significantly GPU limited most of the time.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by Rorschach »

He’s looking at content creation as well though in 4K. If it was a straight gaming build I’d say go for an i9 but the extra cores make a huge difference when it comes to rendering.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by unfnknblvbl »

when you say "most people" and "best for gaming" one thing sticks out (to me, at least) - all benchmark runs are done with the game as the sole task running. Who even does that these days? Chuck in a few Chrome tabs, Discord, music player, and even OBS since it's so popular these days, and all of a sudden you got demand for more than the 16 threads can provide.

Gaming isn't the be-all and end-all of PCs, and if you do literally anything other than gaming on your PC at the moment, Intel is a questionable choice. You can't even buy into the whole "platform" argument, since they'll have moved to a new chipset or socket by the time they become competitive again.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by lestat »

No game I've seen to date eats up 100% of 16 threads. Games are still slaves to the GPU and sit there idle while the GPU is busy. Plenty of CPU cycles for background tasks, I run lots of things in the background and my wife logs in her account and has background stuff too, silky smooth. Memory is more important for background tasks, I run 32GB and I never see hitching/stutters ever. I'm an analytical guy who plays with afterburner overlays all the time and watches every performance metric while I game, so if this was an issue you'd hear it from me straight up.

At the end of day clock speed does count a lot, Amdahl's law applies to many workloads which is why clock matters. Only workloads like encoding and rendering don't suffer from Amdahl's law because there is no shared data and they can scale perfectly across cores, this is the principle behind a GPU and a reason why now GPU compute is replacing CPUs for these workloads.

We trialed the latest 24 core Ryzen thread ripper against an intel xeon skylake-x box for our high frequency trading system at work. Both machines clocked to their max, 4.3ghz for AMD, 4.9ghz for Intel. The Intel system was 20% faster. This was surprising I was expecting the Ryzen system to put up a better fight and maybe just fall behind based on clock scaling. There are still latency/memory IPC issues on Ryzen, the massive cache they put on there doesn't mitigate that issue all the time, sometimes the raw clock speed delta hurts too.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by Rorschach »

Irrespective, the i9 9900K is fairly overpriced at the moment and not likely to come down in the near future. Even the KF version is more expensive than the 3900K on some stores which is lunacy. If you could get a CPU that has more physical cores, performs on average better across a wider variety of applications (and doesn't bottleneck games), runs cooler, consumes less power, doesn't need an aftermarket cooler to achieve its maximum potential, has access to newer motherboard technology and is cheaper? It's an easy choice.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by unfnknblvbl »

I love that these arguments are possible again
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by lestat »

Well that's why the price is high on the 9900k, supply/demand and demand is there because it's still the best gaming CPU and the gap can be substantial at times.

If you plan on buying a 2080ti or above, I think you need the fastest CPU for the job to not bottleneck the GPU.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by Rorschach »

Nah, it's supply. The 3900X just jumped $50 as well. Also, no way a 3900X is going to bottle neck a 2080Ti. Only resolution where there is a difference is 1080p and if you're spending that amount of money to game at 1080p you're doing it wrong.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by unfnknblvbl »

lestat wrote:it's still the best gaming CPU and the gap can be substantial at times.
But most times the gap is insubstantial. Less than 10% performance difference in gaming for the most part, with AMD commanding a substantial lead in almost every other workload.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by lestat »

It's still 10% you're short changing yourself if you have a top end video card.

These days it's all about high FPS, there are some esports gamers who want 240fps in their games and they think games feel sluggish at 100fps.

It just comes down to your priorities, personally I hardly ever encode videos and if I do, I don't mind waiting an extra 10 minutes it might take. Everything else you do on a PC is usually not threaded well and it runs faster on a 5ghz cpu. I have tonnes of threads sitting idle most of the time, it really is under utilised doing a lot of different work loads, which comes back to what I said about Amdal's law.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by lestat »

Today this popped up in my feed and funny enough it bangs on about some of the points I made earlier.
I do agree with his view if AMD follow through with 10-15% IPC improvements in zen 3. That will tie them with intel single thread performance and you can enjoy the best of both worlds.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by Rorschach »

Watched the same video, makes both points - the 9900K only makes sense for a slim number of people. High fps games at 1080p essentially. Also, I've done encoding with the GPU - its janky AF. Granted, I've only ever used Adobe, but that is the standard at the moment (as much as I want alternatives like Davinci to succeed). If you are a competitive gamer that needs 240fps at 1080p and or play Starcraft 2 professionally the 9900K is the CPU to get. Everyone else that plays at 1440p and above is better off with AMD's CPUs this time around.
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by AgOnNy »

Cheers guys, some changes to the build with more research. Also got stung a little with price rises, ended up buying from 2 different vendors (still waiting on final 2 parts to be available for pickup). Will add build shortly...

*EDIT

- Case: Fractal Design Define 7 Tempered Glass (dark tint)
- CPU: Intel i9 9900KF
- CPU Cooling: Fractal Design S36 liquid cooler
- GPU: ZOTAC Gaming GeForce RTX 2080 TI AMP Extreme Core
- Mobo: Gigabyte Z390 AORUS Pro Wifi
- RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB DDR4 3200MHz (2 x 16GB)
- Power Supply: Silverstone Strider Titanium 800W
- Storage 1: Adata XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB (M.2)
- Storage 2: Existing 2TB 3.5"Drive for storage

The biggest saving was on the ZOTAC 2080 TI, saved $200. I can move a copy of Win10 from my old desktop to the new build, so save some more there too.

Will eventually get a bracket to mount the GPU vertically and also considering getting an external slimline BluRay drive.

Thoughts?
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by unfnknblvbl »

I fucking hate that PC cases have unilaterally moved away from storage bays and the like. Half the hard drives in my current PC are mounted on the mack of the motherboard tray, and I have nowhere to put my Bluray burner (which I ended up giving away as a result). And this is in a Thermaltake Level 20 GT, which is far from being small!
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

AgOnNy wrote: - Power Supply: Silverstone Strider Titanium 800W
Check this component. One of its marketing pitches is it's compact? You have enough room in a Define 7 case to not worry about compact PSUs.

Jonny Guru is your ultimate PSU resource - http://www.jonnyguru.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Corsair RM750x reviews better and is cheaper. The Silverstone will likely give you years of trouble-free service but your PSU is one component that will be with you for the long haul, so it's worth getting as close to perfect as you can.

https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/Pow ... T-ST80F-Ti" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/Pow ... 9020179-AU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by unfnknblvbl »

Ooooh thanks for that Pep! I freaking hate buying power supplies!
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Re: New PC Build or Laptop with External GPU

Post by Rorschach »

Huge fan of EVGA PSUs. 10 year warranty, based off Super Flower OEM. Would never touch Thermaltake again after one blew up and another's power cables melted.
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