Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

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Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017- ... sole-games" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It sounds like Valve has no interest in making console games.

"We get really frustrated working in walled gardens," Valve founder Gabe Newell said at a media roundtable at Valve's offices attended by Eurogamer.

Valve released a plethora of console games in the last generation, including The Orange Box, Portal 2, both Left 4 Dead games and Counter-Strike: GO. The current generation of consoles is selling even better, relative to how far along in its lifespan it is. So why is Valve yet to get stuck in?

"So you try to talk to someone who's doing product planning on a console about free-to-play games and they say 'Oh, we're not sure free-to-play is a good idea' and you're like 'the ship has left'," Newell said of the cultural difference working with console developers after specialising in PC.

A couple of Valve's big games are free-to-play, including massive MOBA Dota 2 and competitive shooter Team Fortress 2. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, however, remains £11.99. Left 4 Dead 2 is £14.99.

"There have been cases where we've updated products 5-6 times in a day," he added. "When we did the original iOS of Steam App, right, we shipped it, we got a whole bunch of feedback and like the next day we're ready to do an update. We weren't able to get that update out for six months! And we couldn't find out why they wouldn't release it! They wouldn't tell us. This is the life that you have in these environments. And finally they shipped it! And they wouldn't tell us why they finally shipped it.

"So for us, while we're spending all of our time trying to be as tunnel-vision in this loop with our customers, to all of a sudden have this complete uncertainty about doing updates... Like we don't know how to operate.

"We're just too stupid to know how to be a successful iOS developer," he railed. "'Cause for us, everything that we do, is to make our lives easier and build tools to make other software developer's lives easier.

"We don't know how to do what we do,' he says, with a heaping spoonful of salt.

"I'm sure that other people are wildly successful in those environments, but sort of our DNA tend to not work well when someone is trying to insert a lot of process between us and our customers."
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by t0mby »

6 months for Apple to ok an update? Lol, fuck Apple.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by Ambrose Burnside »

If Valve loved PC so much they'd fucking give us Half-Life 3.

Cunts.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by flipswitch »

There's simply no demand for it.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by GameHED »

It's too rigid and strict. But that can be a good thing because it ensures the people making games on console are not creating garbage with bugs in it. That is why console use to have advantage over pc where bad programming would stand out more on console and your lazy code when compared to coders from other companies who made far better games than you would stand out and you would know it because you all worked on the same hardware.

If you create unfinished product it will be much worse on console since people have a much higher standard on the closed walled garden system.


This is why I see pc as a great platform for experimental shit. And the console is where the sucessful pc stuff goes when it wants to reach a mass audience.

We need more titles that console gamers are not used to seeing on console like the Dues Ex/half Life games that begin on the pc but can thrive on console. This is what happened to the elder scrolls game: the original titles were pc rpgs with bugs everywhere, but since the games were not competing with othwer games of its type, the franchise stood out on console so much. Now today they focus on console more than pc because of the reach it can get on lower spec systems.
Rigid restricted closed platform means less bugs to think about. But it's less risky with ideas now. (morrowind was the sweet spot between still feeling like a pc game but still playable on console without too much features thrown out when ported down. The new games are prettier but less ambitious in terms of features.)
Last edited by GameHED on 11 Feb 2017 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by BOOMY »

the console is where the sucessful pc stuff goes when it wants to reach a mass audience.
Console gaming is the network tv of gaming, made for mass market fools who are told what to like. You heard it here first.
Last edited by BOOMY on 11 Feb 2017 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by GameHED »

No way. I play games on all systems. Where is the equivalent of a Bayonetta killer on pc?

Where are the platformers on pc that are superior to mario?

Show me anything that can beat traditional arcade shooters like gradius V on pc?

Console is the high budget high quality gaming scene, while PC is like the low budget but high quality scene for gaming.

Even Blizzard knows this which is why overwatch is a console title.
You can live in the deluded world of being a pc fanboy if you want to. But the true hardcore gaming community knows that PC would probably not exist without console. Games like GTA5 are considered console games now. Because the big publishers have to get enough sales in order to sustain their existence or they go belly up. Unless they make more low budget stuff. (ie reason that CD Project Red went open world for Witcher 3. The console sales helped fund a bigger game)

Candy secretly knows this. All his posts are just troll posts. The days when pc and console gaming were split far apart are over. You can play games like X-com 2 on console. And games like Dragon Age start off with console in mind even though the first game was a pc title which just happened to get ported to console only.

The scene is changing. Consoles domination will continue. Look at the sales of PS4. It is not going unnoticed by these big publishers. In exchange pc benefit because once in a while a succesful console series gets ported upwards to the pc. (dark souls?) PC developers should look at porting all the best pc games to the nintendo switch imo. They need to stop relying solely on one platform.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by BOOMY »

:lol: console domination.

League of Legends and DOTA 2's popularity and PC exclusivity say otherwise. Console gaming is a drop in the ocean of real gaming. A family house hold appliance for a family house hold entertainment solution. The rest of us will be over here doing some actual gaming with our superior graphics, exclusive titles and competitive online/arcade/tournament scenes.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by GameHED »

Not interested in those games. I'm sure they are great but relelvent mostly to the fans of the MOBA genre.

I'm a single player guy these days. Anyway you have fun playing those games. I'm off to play Nioh a console exclusive which imo should get ported to pc.

Getting some great reviews:

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/nioh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PS4 isn't going anywhere pc gamers. If they collapse I will become a pc-only gamer like you but there is too many exlcusives on the real gaming machines for that to ever happen.
Most pc games will eventually have to come to console anyway. You all know that. Even Elite is getting a port to console.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/elite- ... 0-6425716/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You keyboard tappers should stop being fanboys of platforms and just play games. Stop being cheerleaders and play.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by Twiztid Elf »

Who gives a shit what that fat sack of shit Gabe Newell thinks?
Of course he going to shit on consoles, his entire business is PC gaming centric.
And aside from making DOTA hats, they barely make PC games anymore either.

What a strange article. It says how Valve made loads of console games last gen (which they did), and that they haven't made any console games this gen (they haven't), but they haven't made any PC games either.
Then they use Apples bullshit as a case against consoles? Bizarre. /smh
Fuck Eurogamer has dropped its standards.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by MiNiStRy »

Yeah what he said!
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by Vince »

To me it sounds like fatso was shitty cause consoles haven't fully embraced free to play (thank FUCK for that).
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by GameHED »

Twiztid Elf wrote:Who gives a shit what that fat sack of shit Gabe Newell thinks?
Of course he going to shit on consoles, his entire business is PC gaming centric.
And aside from making DOTA hats, they barely make PC games anymore either.

What a strange article. It says how Valve made loads of console games last gen (which they did), and that they haven't made any console games this gen (they haven't), but they haven't made any PC games either.
Then they use Apples bullshit as a case against consoles? Bizarre. /smh
Fuck Eurogamer has dropped its standards.
Valve should get the license to Elric of Melnibone and make a Witcher 3 style RPG game:
Just copy the combat system of Dragon's Dogma but do the co-op feature like any drop-in-out beat em up game.
Make it open world and then port to console.
Make the game hyper gorey and place a lot of titties in the game (think of Conan on xbox 360 inspired by paintings of Frank Frazetta)....then maybe people will notice Valve again.
Now that there are no new Witcher games it would be the perfect time to make something like that. Elric was the character the Polish ripped off to make the Witcher novels.
There have been many conan games but hardly any Elric ones. Kind of a shame imo. Elric is the "reverse conan".
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by Ambrose Burnside »

Valve just don't seem interested in making games anymore.

They were the gold standard for me, the transition from id to Valve, from Quake to Half-Life during the 90s/2000s was a smooth and glorious one for PC gamers. What a time to be alive!

Doom, Quake, Half-Life, Team Fortress, Counter-Strike. Examples of perfect singleplayer AND multiplayer experiences, and the mods! The incredible mods! The golden age of PC gaming. Then stuff like Battlefield 1942 which gave us the Desert Combat mod (which was basically Battlefield 2) Galactic Conquest (which was basically Star Wars: Battlefront) on top of the dedicated servers (and the fact peeps are still playing it online) etc and you compare that to last year's Battlefront from the same company and yeah. Fucking consoles.

Now we have fewer and fewer dedicated servers (and all the great ISPs with strong communities that hosted them like Internode are dead), we stare at matchmaking screens waiting for a game and mods are a distant memory in most cases. Fucking consoles.

It's weird that Sega (of all companies) with Total War and Dawn of War etc are standard bearers of true PC gaming :up:
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by GameHED »

Valve can make more money asking for money to put games on the store:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017- ... s-problems" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-reveals-it ... reenlight/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by GameHED »

Ambrose Burnside wrote:Valve just don't seem interested in making games anymore.

They were the gold standard for me, the transition from id to Valve, from Quake to Half-Life during the 90s/2000s was a smooth and glorious one for PC gamers. What a time to be alive!

Doom, Quake, Half-Life, Team Fortress, Counter-Strike. Examples of perfect singleplayer AND multiplayer experiences, and the mods! The incredible mods! The golden age of PC gaming. Then stuff like Battlefield 1942 which gave us the Desert Combat mod (which was basically Battlefield 2) Galactic Conquest (which was basically Star Wars: Battlefront) on top of the dedicated servers (and the fact peeps are still playing it online) etc and you compare that to last year's Battlefront from the same company and yeah. Fucking consoles.

Now we have fewer and fewer dedicated servers (and all the great ISPs with strong communities that hosted them like Internode are dead), we stare at matchmaking screens waiting for a game and mods are a distant memory in most cases. Fucking consoles.

It's weird that Sega (of all companies) with Total War and Dawn of War etc are standard bearers of true PC gaming :up:
Game industry needs to crash again. The good games are being ignored like Titanfall2 while free to play (pay-to-win) gaming is taking over. Even forced into games like Deus Ex that do not need it from a game design perspective.
People are boycotting the anti-consumer shit now and maybe this will send a message to big publishers to go back to the way things used to be, but greedy guys will just kill the entire franchise which is what usually happens if a game sells like crap due to a boycott rather than learn to be nice to us.

When companies like nintendo, Rockstar, Bethesda, CDPR do DLC it is usually in the way of psuedo expansion pack stuff. Nobody is against that. (MarioKart 8 extra tracks are awesome) But it's the idea that games that were once free of the pay-to-win nonsense (something pc gaming brought into the console gaming space which is fucking annoying as fuck) are going to be designed around the need to put in-game shops that will cause the game industry to collapse.

Western developers need to go back to the way games used to be made on consoles back in the day when you made an entire game and once it was done, that was it. If it sold well you could justify a sequel,.
But not cut a game in half and charge for content that should have been already in the game from the start.

many will say: " but that is just to combat used game sales" but the fact is it doesn't work and people will just wait for the GOTY edition of the title to save money. Wrecking the experience for people who bought it second hand only ruins the game for everyone and makes the consumer feel like it isn't complete. Even if the game's DLC is just cosmetic stuff. Games should not be shops. Just make less titles but polish them like nintendo. Then you regain respect. There are too many games on the market and the comppetition is getting harder now so some of the good games will sell bad if you continue to use anticonsumer tactics and shoe-horn in multiplayer nonsense in games that simply do not NEED it. The time making multiplayer shit in Dues EX MD could have been used on polishing the single player.
Many will also agree with me that Mario Kart 8's Battle Mode didn't need to exist because it was shit. I would prefer less quantity and higher quality. (the sequel seems to have fixed battle mode so I look forward to seeing that)

Old school console games where the early adopter is not treated like guinea pigs was the golden age of gaming. Today's gaming scene is more like silver age. More overall games, but it has brought more greed and anticonsumer nonsense which may piss people off enough that they stop buying. (the poor sales of triple A games may be a sign of doom)
Same shit happened to comic books in the 90s when comics started to go up in price and there was an obsession with making collector edition covers and fancy glossy graphic novel stuff. It increased the risk to the comic collector who just wanted quality story and if they bought a comic that was shit, it meant more money was wasted. So they bought overall less comics or just jumped out of the hobby after seeing the greed of companies who relied on the expensive looking cover gimmick to increase profits rather than good stories and interesting characters.

Similarly, as games have gotten more big budget, you see the risk increase if the series sells poor and you won't see future games of that series if it doesn't reach a certain target to re-coop cost to produce it. An example of this is the sales of survival horror games not being high enough to justify making more of that type of game. And this caused capcom to turn Resident Evil into a shooter with zombies instead of survival/thriller/action hybrid. (RE4 wouldn't have been a action game if it wasn't for poor RE1 Remake sales on the gamecube.) The thing is when there are too many games flooding the market and the masses buy crappy overhyped titles that turn out to be generic, while ignoring the quality, then it sends a message to big publisher to make more generic things and dilutes the overall fun of games in general.
A crash can correct this. Companies will be scared to enter the gaming biz and you will see less games on the market but the quality will increase significantly because if a game is anti consumer, it will stick out more easily among games that don't treat you like shit. (currently lots of big publisher's games do it so the younger gamers think this shit is normal. If it's normal to THEM, then more abuse than what they get will be considered normal for the future generation after them. IE games will feel like demos but priced at full price game is today)
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by BOOMY »

Your opinions are decades old.

A crash is caused by a lack of sales, that is just not the current state of affairs. You don't back kickstarters or games you believe in then wonder why there is so much to whinge about. Vote with your gaming dollars like the rest of us and things will turn out fine.
Btw, the PC currently pulls in the most revenue out of any platform mobile included.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by Rorschach »

Spot on. GameHED is the kind of person who is ruining the industry. I grew up playing games, started on an old Vectrex before getting a hand me down Atari 2600. Have owned, at one point or another, every console ever made bar the Neo Geo AES. Never had a lot of money growing up but now in a position to support developers in making these awesome games and it shits me that there are people like GameHED that won't throw a couple of dollars towards indie developers. What kind of fuckwit wishes for another market crash? It took years for the game industry to recover and more to the point, it almost killed console gaming forever.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

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BOOMY wrote:Your opinions are decades old.

A crash is caused by a lack of sales, that is just not the current state of affairs. You don't back kickstarters or games you believe in then wonder why there is so much to whinge about. Vote with your gaming dollars like the rest of us and things will turn out fine.
Btw, the PC currently pulls in the most revenue out of any platform mobile included.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

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The only relevance to Gabe Newell's statement is to bait GameHED.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by Candy Arse »

That and it's kind of true if you're serious about your gaming experiences.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by BOOMY »

I'm not sure about the only way to go but console gaming is like network tv level of gaming entertainment. Serves the masses their call of fifa field 4 while successfully siphoning money with its marketplace hub/monthly fee.
There is certainly a more serious atmosphere amongst many pc gamers. They play games to play games not as an alternative to watching my kitchen rules every night; pc gamers are hobby gamers
Nothing wrong with the space that console gaming holds but I have realized indies, jap games and skill based online games(not "call of level up") are what I play; console gaming no longer makes sense for me. I literally hate most of the AAA titles that come out for consoles.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

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Nothing wrong with it at all! I'm loving Yakuza 0.

Overall though, I think we can all agree that PC is where you evolve to when you want the premium gaming experience.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

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Nah pc Gaming sucks compared to consoles.

I think the reason Gabe is so angry is jealousy the steam Box didńt Take off while sony are kicking arse. Trust me on this. You guys dońt know shit about Gaming. You basically want the annoying part of pc Gaming to come to console platforms. People prefer streamlined Highly polished Games not buggy experiences.

You guys wish you could see pc dominate but its a platform that to me is mostly for the odd Game you cańt find on console. Its a niche within Gaming. Steam shop Has so much shovelware that People are having problems sifting Through the rubbish to Get to the serious Games. No such problem on consoles where the hardware manufacturer can Block the shit Games that make the brand look bad if needed so that It doesńt leave a bad First impression about the system.

The days when pc gamers could say they were superior because they could play doom on It are out of datę. Those franchises are on console now you old farts. You dońt know what the fuck you are talking about. Most People want to lay back on couch to play Games in the living room not on desk. Even if It means jerky framerates.
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Re: Valve - "Console is terrible, PC is the only way to go"

Post by GameHED »

Rorschach wrote:Spot on. GameHED is the kind of person who is ruining the industry. I grew up playing games, started on an old Vectrex before getting a hand me down Atari 2600. Have owned, at one point or another, every console ever made bar the Neo Geo AES. Never had a lot of money growing up but now in a position to support developers in making these awesome games and it shits me that there are people like GameHED that won't throw a couple of dollars towards indie developers. What kind of fuckwit wishes for another market crash? It took years for the game industry to recover and more to the point, it almost killed console gaming forever.
The reason the crash Has to happen is because the industry kills the companies that Get absorbed by the big publishers who córce them to do shit that makes the quality of the Games more generic. Lot of People are tired of pay to win shit in Games. We didńt have this problem in past gens. They can Get away with that stuff because the younger generation of gamers didńt know of anything else and thinks its normal. But It is dragging down the Fun of the hobby.

I bet the poor Sales of dues ex is because people want to boycott unecessary additional model in these Games which are fine as Just single Player experiences. Developers are bullied into doing shit against thier will and so we Get stuff nobody wants in our Games. A crash would kill the bad companies off and only the ones that care about the quality will remain. Valve doesńt even make Games anymore so you wouldńt even notice a difference. Lol
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