Monster Hunter World

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GameHED
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Monster Hunter World

Post by GameHED »

thought I'd create a thread for info dumping all the shit since e3:

new trailer from capcom:
analysis
older stuff:
gameplay trailer of ancient forest
hunting guide for noobs to the series:
brief weapon guides for all the weapons:

sword and shield: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apboPug3AUA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
dual blades: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMYqnNCx95U" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
great sword: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azF6ruKpeLM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
long sword: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipF2H78kS10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
hammer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2Is_z19Dxc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
gun lance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW_2gma8Yk8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
lance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXjBjFiaPkI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
hunting horn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG20lpdqwiw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
switch axe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsltopn6Zis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
charge blade: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OltfWqxcGUs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
bow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Alvh9yUuM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
insect glaive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEyRRODdvw0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
light bowgun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muEsWLXpNFY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
heavy bowgun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QESoKKFc9SY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

light weapons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_bBd7v0PUA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
heavy weapons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgBhaRZhsFY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
technical weapons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt_Dn65jdSQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by GameHED on 26 Jan 2018 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad." -Shigeru Miyamoto
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Re: Monster Hunter World (new trailer)

Post by GameHED »

Newer shit about the game pimped by sony:
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad." -Shigeru Miyamoto
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Re: Monster Hunter World

Post by GameHED »

Reviews:
Looking good. :up: If this fails then capcom should just forget about making hardcore games like this for the west. Concentrate on it being for portable devices only. Much like Megaman from the 8-bit console days MH appeals to the crowd that is satisfied with having his butt handed to him to make him stronger and wish to improve his performance and efficiency each time he replays it over and over again. The problem is not every gamer today is a generation X guy when games were designed to be challenging and brutal. (maybe one of the reasons Zelda BOTW appeals to the older adventure gamer crowd)

Many of the modern day games of today are aimed at the lowest common denominator person for commercial reasons to boost the sale of the product which means they are dumbed down. I fear if they dumb down MH too much it will stop being what made it appealing to the serious fans and might cause the older ones to lose interest. Capcom have to be careful here so that they don't betray what made the series appealing to the hardcore and just help the noob to the franchise understand how to play it well rather than making the game itself too easy. (yes that is hard in these times where the millenial genration are taught to be entitled to have a participation ribbon just for appearing but japan needs to keep their japanese games true to japanese design. (ie everything you want must be earned and no buying your way to victory like an EA title. hehe)

Dark Souls seemed to have taken off but sadly MH struggles to get noticed in the west. I don't know why but maybe it is because people like dark fantasy theme more?
Another thing is capcom not including guidebooks to the game for the dumber western gamer who needs more of a helping hand than the educated japanese kids who live and breathe these grindy sims.

My suggestion to capcom is they have a seperate team of guys who play MH write the guide book to these games and this way they can keep the series 'smart' so older hardcore fans who want to preserve the spirit of the franchise alive dont have to worry about the games in future being too dumbed down for the mass audience. People should enjoy a good grind as long as the grind was involving and deep. Problem with grindy games that are boring is they just have poor design and the grind is merely there to pad the game with filler and extend the overall play time. You want to make the game the good kind of grindy where you are able to use the oportuity to slay giant monsters with more efficiency than before like practicing a track in a racing sim to see if you can shave off a few seconds to better your old time. That is the message they must send to the noob: even if the game is repetitive it's the good fun repetitive where you are slowly becoming more skilled as a player and not due just to stats or gear or the length of time you spent playing. (although the length of time you play increases your chance of becoming better too) Having lots of practice and bad gear/stats is still better than poor player skill due to no practice but wearing good gear. Because the game is designed to reward high skill not patience only. ie a skilled player can do a naked run with no armor or poor weapon and still take down high power monster in good time to demonstrate to a noob that you too can be as good as the high skill guy if you practice everyday rather than blame bad gear for your fail. That is why people play these games: that sense of true accomplishment from spending time sutdying enemy patterns to get intimate with the monster enough that you are always in the right spot at the right time because you try to put as few things down to mere chance as possible to never be at a disadvantage or miss an opportunity to do damaging combe when an opening is seen. Any game that rewards brains and skill is better than one which lets you win just for being given high power things to kill without much need for your involvement.

These are pure gamey games that can keep you involved for literally thousands of hours. Why? Because a more efficient grinder can get the better things earlier if they are consistently skillful at the game. But to be good requires application of skill all the time where you can be punished for not reacting on your feet with intelligence that require studying each monster carefully. It's what I call "active grinding" gameplay where you must be sharp and alert all the time to obtain rewards. "passive grinding" doesn't demand twitch responses to get reward and gets very boring very quickly because your brain doesn't need to be always on edge to what is hapening around you to keep you busy enough to sweat through a challenge. When a game is repetitive and mostly involves passive grinding gameplay then there is no more challenge to the player and the game makes a noob look no differnet from an expert player because the game lets the noob have an automatic win for just having played the game and less because they can play it well consistently and be tested through involving gameplay. MH is one of those games that doesn't just let you feel good for playing it. You earn the feeling when you demonstrate skill consisttently and you earn things quickly by thinking about time-saving methods of grinding to grind faster than others. Rather than just speed running through things by rushing the content you think about different ways to do a challenge in order to obtain more hits and do more damage per encounter than last time. This boosts replayability for a repetitious game to add depth which normally you'd grow bored of due to shallow gameplay and seeing the same content over and over again. MH is one of those repetitive titles that has enough depth for you to not mind the grind. It is very similar in feel to old games like super punch out but instead of knocking out boxers you are studying monster attack patterns rather than punching patterns. Does that make the game feel 'datedd and old school'? Hell yeah but that's exactly why people LIKE IT. Because newer games have gotten obsessed with telling us stories and shit. These games are purely about you and the monster. It's rare for a game these days to be JUST about the gameplay and not about a tagged on story which you will only watch/read once and forget about. ie most modern games right now which are made by film geeks.

Other reviews:
Last edited by GameHED on 26 Jan 2018 05:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad." -Shigeru Miyamoto
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Re: Monster Hunter World

Post by pilonv1 »

I'd heard they dumbed this one down for western audiences, is that true?
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Re: Monster Hunter World

Post by GameHED »

Yeah movement is more loose so things like drinking a potion while in a fight let you walk around while drinking. The purist would sneer at this because the purpose of healing while in the middle of a fight is to correct a mistake on the players part so the punishment is to make it more risky for you to heal in the zone where a monster is actively fighting you. Newer gamers often say: why the fuck do I have to stand still for so long after eating/healing/sharpening the tool? because they didn't understand the point of preparation.

Old games encourage you to prepare just before you get to the monster so that you don't leave yourself open to attacks and easy hits during a fight. New game with open world had to lessen the punishment a bit by letting you still move. I think that might be because you can't run out of an area as easily as old games with the tiny zones but to be honest it fits with the theme of being a 'world' MH game which emphasises more freedom to move through the environment. Much like Forza horizon emphasis on open roads and not race tracks. Or how Mario World lets you explore a map going back and forth to unlock stages and old Super Mario on NES didn't let you run backward.

MH was all about rigid restrictions in movement so you were committed to a decision once you made one. (much like Phantasy Star Online animation) Letting us move too easily is like having too good controls in a suvival horror game. heh The zombies would not stand a chance if you could just dash around like a ninja and wallrun past them without fear. Having said that in MH the Sword and Shield weapon gives you more freedom (given that it's a normal sized weapon which lets you cancel pretty much any move into dodge) so the argument that giving us more fluidity ruins the game is silly imo. All capcom would have to do is make monster less restrictive in its own animations to balance this out. So they don't stay stuck to the ground for so long in sync with not letting the player be stuck to the spot too long. It's just different, not better or worse. Think of the differences in movement fluidity in street fighter alpha 3 vs the restrictive movement in street fighter alpha 2. In 2, your character felt very flat footed and glued to the floor, and in 3 they made characters finsh the attacks faster rather than leaving their limbs out for ages like a stupid jean claude van damne finshing move in slow motion from an 80s martial arts flick. One is not better than the other. As long as the other guy also has the restriction or the removal of the restriction in line with you. It's just different feel. This is just my opinion. A world MH game is aiming for a western audience much like how Final Fantasy 7 was aiming for western audience with the theme of materialism and corporations owning the world and adding in more western characters for them to identify with. It's a design decision not a mistake by the people making the game. Just as Forza Horizon letting you race on roads is not the death of vanilla forza. If this fails capcom can easily revert back to the old school movement style of restricting your options once you executed your attack. (this would be akin to changing the speed of super street fighter 2 turbo back to normal SFII speed again and feel slow and methodical rather than quick and fluid. Some want tactical feel and some like the idea of rewarding fast reaction speeds by limiting how ,uch time you have to respond. But in the case of MH making you slow makes it feel more 'smart' and to the western audience making us get things done fast seems more exciting. In multiplayer game I feel you need things to go at a deliberately slow speed so that you can plan the attack with other members more easily and I don't really care much for the game to be sped up too much. I would rather the game reward knowledge over fast twitch reflexes. So I like the old games but the open world means you get more intreting environments now which also means more varied approaches to the same situations. For instance multiple things interacting with each other and the open space to handle this so that you can safely pick your distance to engage the monster safely rather than be forced to enter a tiny 'room' which to be honest is just a restriction of portable gaming with its limited memory. .

Threads on what purist see as a dumbing down of play mechanics:
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/211368- ... d/76214678" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/211368- ... d/76232932" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad." -Shigeru Miyamoto
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Re: Monster Hunter World

Post by GameHED »

After people who are long time fans of old MH games have had time to play the game proper, the general impression with MH World is that it's not the best MH game in terms of play mechanics but it's the more fun due to the quality of life improvements (ie cutting out the boring-but-true-to-hunting and gathering simulation bits to make it easy to get to the fun bits which quickens the overall pace of the title)

MH4U is still king due to sheer amount of content. (this game will eventually have add-ons and get beefed up later as expected though)

https://www.resetera.com/posts/3916917/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am enjoying it, but they really simplified a ton of mechanics so I'm hoping that's not going to be the future of the franchise.

No separate Gunner/Blademaster armor, giving Gunners a huge advantage compared to previous entries because they now have Blademaster levels of armor.
Being able to access your chest DURING a mission, essentially giving you access to unlimited supplies.
Mantles that grant insane buffs like being practically invisible (for egg delivery missions) or let you completely negate damage for a certain number of hits.
You get placed at a random spot during High Rank missions but you can teleport to camps anyway so what's the point.

As a result the game is really quite easy by comparison.

Some other issues:

I'm not a big fan of the large open maps, running around chasing a glowing trail of fireflies while spamming O to pick up trails is not my idea of fun.
Quite a lot of reskins in the monster roster, new name but essentially almost the exact same moveset. (Anjanath/Deviljho, Radobaan/Uragaan, Rathalos/Paolomu, Legiana/Seregios)
The Zorah missions are hardly even missions, the second time I barely did anything and the fight just kept progressing on to the next stage.

Having said that the game looks great and plays well, but a lot is left to be desired. For me it's a good, but not great, Monster Hunter entry. My favourite MH is going to either be MH4U or MHFU, just because of the sheer amount of content those games have.


Overall what you get from World is better visuals and more easy to control game (portable controllers give cramps to people) but you lose complexity in forgetting to remind the player that the game should feel like a sim for killing dangerous beasts by researching them to understand how they function. It's that problem of the "game playing itself for you" that older players may not accept wholeheartedly. Capcom needs that easy money though haha.. :D
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Re: Monster Hunter World

Post by GeneraL CyberFunK »

I am enjoying how challenging this game is in terms of learning how to use weapons.. I'm getting a PSO vibe from it to be honest..
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Re: Monster Hunter World

Post by GameHED »

MH = PSO without any trash mobs or dungeons to get to the boss. Just grinding early bosses for their skins to make the weapon and armor needed to resist their attacks better or increase your damage to make the time limit. In that sense it is akin to megaman game where you play a hunter of rogue robots absorbe their combat techniques into your memory and exploit their unique weaknesses by observing their behavior and mannerism to react intelligently to their moves.

I've said it before: MH for capcom today is really the Megaman of the 80s imo. It just didn't seem to get noticed due to the portable systems having shitty controls so when you add shitty portable controls that give you hand cramps with low spec graphics, and combine it with the deliberately stiff animation (your attack animations are like survival horror style stuff from the resident evil 1 PSX days) you have many barriers for western audience (who let's face it unlike the japanese are very impatient unless it's a soul games) to get through. All capcom needd to do is get the series on to next gen machines again (mistake corrected with this game which lets us see far), teach noobs what things are for (tutorials may be annoying but crucial for a reboot game imo), and avoid the lootbox crap from the EA business model of making your game a virtual shop .....and then you will attract more people.

Yes the older fans may miss out, but in a way it's not like portable series has to die off. I think west needs home console controllers to truly enjoy these games (ever since MH Tri the series has gotten better on this front) but maybe the asians don't mind as much and like the idea of bringing the portable with them on the street and meeting others who are also fans of the game and hunt together easily?

I asked the EB guy yesterday how Dragonball Fighter Z was selling and he said "not as fast as Monster Hunter World" which means capcom marketing is working. All it needed was for the systems underneath to be less cryptic and have someone explain why you couldn't see the monster health bar in old games. Fact of the matter is MH is kind of like where JRPG games were back in the 16 bit days: it sells well in the east but is considered a niche title in other places like europe and america. Games like Final Fantasy back in the 16 bit days were for nerds and action titles were for everyone else. Now that JRPG is mainstream today, they are not a niche anymore. Same thing can happen with MH franchise if capcom figure out how to please the long time fan without alienating the noobs. If the noob doesn't have to read a wiki page to know how to play then they have succeeded.

But they will have to sacrifice some of the mystery of figuring out how to beat monsters when they make it too easy. Part of hunting is scouting and watching what the monster eats where the lair is, how fast it can move and the various battle states or modes it goes into to know when to attack, when to evade(usually when it is super pissed and goes super saiyan on you), and when to cooldown (focus on resupply, healing, sharpen the weapons etc) so that no second is wasted. If the game tells you absolutely everything it has the problem of a 'game that plays itself' and less of a simulation feel to it which is why I think MH will have to split into 2 series: one that is the numbered series that is more simulation in feel (like how in animal crossing you don't really have full control over what happens all the time - life can surprise you by revealing things you don't understand until it happens) and the other which gets to the 'non-boring' bits IE fighting the giant monsters and getting more powerful by obtaining the rare shit through the grinding mechanics.

If you like a solo experience you may not want to grind and just enjoy a relaxing hunt and fishing sim in a strange world. That's what MH can be. But it is probably in Capcom's best interest to not highlight those boring parts to americans who are more excited about getting to the endgame as quickly as possible which is where the meat of the game is. (all the other stuff like getting resources was just holdover from mmo games and the repetitious nature of mining, gathering and fishing is more for the eastern fan imo (much like how old JRPG games with turn based combat and random enemy encounters is still tolerated there despite being almost non-existent anymore in western rpg these days due to how repetitive that can be)

If this game sells well, it will be better for capcom (more money) but might not mean better things for old timer fans who liked doing everything themselves so they could learn stuff that only they know about and pass this onto others as community service kind of thing or helping people solve crossword puzzle. MH numbered series appeal is not having 100% control until you solve all the little mystery about monsters and dominate it. When MH World gives you everything, it makes the player weaker so there is a chance it will scare off some of the simulation guys. But the suces of the World game doesn't necessarily mean they have to scrap the numbered games. Maybe have them co-exist sort of like how elder scrolls online exist without meaning the single player open world rpg is cancelled. (but I doubt that. The usual pattern is the bigger game which is dumbed down and dominates ends up being the direction of all future games. When resident evil became more of a zombie action shooter we saw survival horror RE disappear)

One of the reasons people were drawn to Zelda BOTW is partly for the simulation portions of the game which made it feel like a survival indie game. Those same things are what made old MH games appealing: you would gather your resources, prepare before a fight, and if you die, that lets you guage how much a threat something is and the danger. But if you have player skill you can still grind with low spec gear and make the fight interesting if you want challenge and to finish the game without doing repetitious things. But you have to be good at the game to do this so if you practice each monster enough and have good natural skill you can avoid repetition by taking lots of risky chances and the game feels like old arcade games of the past where you die in 1 or 2 hits. Veterns like that style of difficulty but when noobs see how intimidating a fight can get it scares them off. So a split in the community was inevitable. What simulation fans think is fun could be interpreted as mindless busy work to action gamers.

The way nintendo handles this is giving you lots of easy things to do in a game to make doing the hard things less painful because you have lots of extra lives and powers that you gathered to remove the challenge. I think MHW can do the same thing: just give the veterens harder versions that only appear in the world after you get high ranking kills on regular monsters. This way the vets have a REASON to go and grind for better armour and gives them a sense of purpose for being in the community rather than abandoning the game to go play on the 3DS lol

A player should not have to CREATE artificial difficulty by walking around with no armour and beating up monsters that are too easy for him as a way to challenge themself. He should want to NEED to wear high level armour and use high level weapon to kill advanced creatures to get a sense of progression and the rare armour and weapon serves as his reward so when people see him walking around with the best and rarest gear they admire him. The rare weapons and gear are like high ranking soldier with more medals and getting more respect and authority. Everyone should want to be his friend and be on his team because he can lead the less-skilled guys to victory and rare loot. The danger of making MHW too easy is these veterens run out of things to do. So hopefully by the time they get sick of it, the G rank content is there to prevent them trading it in at EB games. heh I'm personaly ok with toning the monsters down a bit for noobs, but in exchange they need system that rates your performance and then use that as a way to decide what monsters will appear to remind the good players that there is always room for improvement and slightly better versions of things they are currently holding otherwise online community dries up. End game stuff should feel more like YOU are being hunted by the monster and not you hunting the monster. Without making a veteren sweat a bit you have no danger. Without the danger there is no reason to team up to minimise risk. And without teaming up, you lose some complexity in how you handle a situation. (ie you can't have one guy distract a monster away from an injured guy by baiting the monster with food or have a buddy jump in front of you with shield* to buy time to heal etc that kinda thing which builds bond between players and makes the game interesting as a co-op experience.

*in old games the gunner had about half armour of a blademaster so the old rule of "archers/ranged attackers in the back row and melee fighters in the front row" still held true. When you take away that, it means you have a team of "lone wolves" instead of "dudes dependent on each other for things" which in old times ican make for some good tactical fun. I'm more a solo player though so I only co-op as a helper more than because I want to take shit and beg for assist. (very common in all online games for lazy guy to expect free stuff) That changes as danger increases and you just want to watch a better player fight to see how they beat things. (this lets you learn new stuff so you can be better at hunting that type of monster too)
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad." -Shigeru Miyamoto
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Re: Monster Hunter World

Post by t0mby »

Is this that Monster Hunter Switch Exclusive that Jasper was talking about?
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Re: Monster Hunter World

Post by Candy Arse »

That's the one!
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Re: Monster Hunter World

Post by GameHED »

Sony lost it to nintendo from the Wii to Wii U/3DS onwards. It's time for the sony fans to get their revenge I guess.

Would love a port to Switch. But I think nintendo needs to pay sega a moneyhat to get PSO2 to Switch instead. Bring it to the west officially. The two can co-exist. We need a diablo clone with star warsy universe. It was supposed to be ported to the Vita but nothing happened. :(

Any news on whether MH XX is being localised for switch, jasper?
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Re: Monster Hunter World

Post by GameHED »

Monster Hunter World on PC having problems according to unbiased gamers who game on pc:
"Worst optimised PC port I've seen in a long long time" <- note: bitter Nintendo fans had nothing to do with him saying this. You already banned Jasper so there is no excuse.

Candy doomed. The port wasn't done well. Told ya Sony Executives were going to pay the workers to make it shit on purpose so the fans of the game will have to play it on Playstation and then help sony dominate and boost PS Plus subs. Same reason I don't play mario on mobile phones. Not the same as playing on native machines. Only true gamers understand that.

IF they fix the problems a re-review should be done so capcom gets rewarded for putting in effort to listen to the fans. If capcom just made this on Switch you wouldn't have all this problems because nintendo hates bugs in games and will probably pay extra to make sure it's a true exclusive. (IE not able to be played on PC)

PC gamers need to demand more respect. Lift your standards up to the standard of console gamers who don't put up with this stuff.

Bottom line: stick to the console peasant platform until capcom gets off its bum to do something about it.
Hopefully japanese kids pressure capcom to make the next open world MH game on portable so they can play on the bus. PC ports from now on need to be handled similar to what rockstar did with GTA5. Delay it, polish it, do it right. Don't follow the EA path of "good enough for release... maybe we'll fix it long after people bought and traded it to ebgames out of frustration, or not at all so we can laugh at them being censored on the boards when they try to complain about our shit game"
related:
metacritic score: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/monster-hunter-world" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (see user score for real score)
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad." -Shigeru Miyamoto
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Re: Monster Hunter World

Post by flipswitch »

http://steamspy.com/app/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From ResetEra.
According to todays numbers and what it seems to be about the final:

Owners: 2,176,000
That’s pretty damn good numbers.
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