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 Mad loot box bro 
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http://www.clickerheroes2.com/paytowin.php

Quote:

Why Clicker Heroes 2 is abandoning free-to-play

We had to choose one of two models: Paid upfront like traditional games, or free-to-play with a real-money shop like Clicker Heroes 1. We chose paid upfront, for $29.99 (fully refundable for a year after launch), and we are in a situation where we have to explain ourselves to a massive number of players who were expecting/hoping for a free sequel. There are several reasons why we are making this decision.

Ethical reasons

Games are inherently addictive. That alone is not a bad thing, until it gets abused. In Clicker Heroes 1, we never tried to abuse players with our real-money shop, and for the most part we designed it without the shop in mind so that you never have to purchase rubies to progress. Despite this, we found that some number of players spent many thousands of dollars on rubies. I can only hope that these people could afford it, and that they were doing it to support us, and not to feed an addiction. But I strongly suspect that this is not the case.

We made a lot of money from these players who spent thousands. They are known to the industry as "Whales". Great. If you're rich, please be my guest. But we don't want this kind of money if it came from anyone who regrets their decision, if it made their lives significantly worse as a result. Unfortunately, those who have a problem are usually in denial about it, and would be too ashamed to ask us for a refund. We would give the refund in a heartbeat. It's not like we have artists drawing each ruby by hand. It costs us nothing but payment processing fees.

We really don't like making money off players who are in denial of their addiction. And that's what a large part of free-to-play gaming is all about. Everyone in the industry seems to rationalize it by shifting the blame, assuming way too much cognizance on the part of their victims. People can make their own decisions, right? But it just doesn't sit well with me. Despite very few of our players having complained, it felt wrong when we started doing it and it still feels wrong now.

That said, we're not going to change how we monetize Clicker Heroes 1. It would destroy our studio if we did. Most people are OK with how we've handled it. Our unlimited refund policy still stands. But going forward we're going to at least try the paid-up-front model for our business. It may or may not work. It probably isn't worth nearly as much money, but at least we can do it with a cleaner conscience.

Game design reasons

We want the experience to be good. The mere existence of real-money purchases puts an ugly cloud over the player's experience, with the persistent nagging feeling of "My game could be so much better if I just spent a few dollars". That alone feels terrible.

Also, if we have a real-money shop, we are limited to only rebalancing the game in ways that people who just spent money would approve of. People paid real money to get the current state of their game where it is at, and they've developed an expectation that it would be good for a long time. If we make changes to the game that are better for the game but *feel* worse for any one particular player at any stage of the game, we get backlash from that player. We've experienced this many times in the past. As a result, Clicker Heroes 1 is kind of a frankenstein of a game, our hands always having been tied by the fact that we couldn't easily change things that people paid for.

With Clicker Heroes 2, we plan to work on at least a few major updates without too much regard to player progress, similar to the way Dwarf Fortress, Rimworld, Factorio, and other games do. New updates can change the game to be incompatible with old saves (which will be rare, maybe once or twice a year), and there will be plenty of advance warning when it happens. Players then have the option to continue playing on the old version, or start fresh on the new version. To help make things more interesting, Clicker Heroes 2 is designed with multiple characters for you to choose from. So when you start fresh on one of these updates, you can play a different character, which will be a much different experience.

Also, we like games with mods and we want mods. Real-money shops make little sense with mods, when you can just download a mod to quadruple the number of rubies you get. Also, it is simply too easy to cheat. To facilitate modding, we would be giving lots of easy access to the source code, and very easy save editing.

Pre-orders

Final reason: Pre-orders don't make sense if a game is free-to-play. Pre-orders qualify for full refunds for up to a year after we launch: https://www.clickerheroes2.com/.

- Fragsworth



21 Nov 2017 04:22 pm
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Developers with a conscience, who would have thunk?

And South Park nailed it:

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21 Nov 2017 04:59 pm
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I'd hardly call Clicker Heroes 1 a game, it's just another human mining clone. The fact that they are using the backlash against pay2win to try and be the heroes is laughable when the 2nd one looks like it might actually be an actual game.

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21 Nov 2017 05:09 pm
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Entertaining Battlefront 2 review from one of my favourite game reviewers.



21 Nov 2017 09:43 pm
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Breaking!!! Belgium declares loot boxes gambling, seeks to ban them in the EU!!!

Quote:
Last week, Belgium's Gaming Commission announced that it had launched an investigation into whether the loot boxes available for purchase in games like Overwatch and Star Wars Battlefront 2 constitute a form of gambling. Today, VTM News reported that the ruling is in, and the answer is yes.

The Google translation is a little sloppy, as usual, but the message is clear enough. "The mixing of money and addiction is gambling," the Gaming Commission declared. Belgium's Minister of Justice Koen Geens also weighed in, saying, "Mixing gambling and gaming, especially at a young age, is dangerous for the mental health of the child."

Geens, according to the report, wants to ban in-game purchases outright, and not just in Belgium: He said the process will take time, "because we have to go to Europe. We will certainly try to ban it."

And now, things will start to get interesting. I've reached out to the Gaming Commission for more information, and will update if I receive a reply.


http://www.pcgamer.com/belgium-says-loot-boxes-are-gambling-wants-them-banned-in-europe/?utm_content=buffere78bc&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertw


22 Nov 2017 09:22 am
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It is a form of gambling, anyone with any common sense can see that. You're paying money to take a gamble at gaining something worth of value to you. Purchasing a Lootbox will trigger a rush of excitement hoping to 'win'. It's no different to the same effect of pressing the spin on a poker machine or the excitement of checking a lotto scratchy.

Fuck off Lootboxs.

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22 Nov 2017 11:10 am
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I agree with the Belgians, this is harmful to young minds, I worry about my kids being exposed to it. It conditions them to slot machines and gambling mechanics as being normal.

I remember my parents constantly drumming into my head about the evils of gambling and I thank them dearly for that, I never got into punting/pokies and it has saved me a fortune in my adult life.


22 Nov 2017 11:13 am
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State of Hawaii is going after EA for predatory practices.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/7elin7/the_state_of_hawaii_announces_action_to_address/dq62w5m/


22 Nov 2017 12:13 pm
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In-app purchases same thing?


22 Nov 2017 12:23 pm
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Thanks EA, finally did gamers some good :up:


22 Nov 2017 04:46 pm
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They got greedy, and somebody in power finally noticed. Now the whole games industry is probably going to get either regulated or heavily scrutinised from now on as a result. EA have probably ruined everything for everyone with this.

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22 Nov 2017 05:57 pm
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Unless it's a FtP game, I never understood the appeal of playing a game that lets people cheat in it??

This goes beyond the issue of addicting kids to gambling. They already do that when they buy cards for card battle games and then swap rare cards which they have duplicates of for rare cards they don't have yet to comoplete a collection..

What I'm worried about is the stupidity of the masses in putting up with it in triple A full price games. Mobile and ftp, ok I get that. But games you already bought? The greedy publishers have crossed the line. It's why I won't buy even single player game with loot box crap. You see, they can easily patch the game later to make it more grindy for when they need to extract new money off of you. And you don't want to see people playing the same game for ever and ever and ever. You want people to play different games not just 1 that is super grindy. I think the publishers know that by keeping people stuck to playing one game, they can monopolise time of the average gamer. Time spent not playing a rival's game because you are playing an EA one that is super grindy, ...is time you didn't play games made by the other publishers. There must be a limit on how many hours people play games, they figured out what that was, and decided to make things as reptitive as they can to keep people 'subscribed' to their games forever much like MMO genre when Blizzard had the lions share of buyers for the genre because they were too busy playing WoW to even consider spending new money on a rival MMO.

By trying to change single player games into MMO-like experiences it gives the greedy publishers full control over what a gamer can do with his limited time and they can deliberately force the non-paying owners of the game to have to grind and this makes them go crazy out of impatience and they just snap and cave and pay the money to advance quick so they don't have to play a game handicapped. But this risks pissing people off and swearing off any future games forever once it happens too much.

I suspect it is all the publishers that are SJWs and feminists that are pushing for addiction to gambling imo. The types of people that want to get your kids to take drugs, drop out of school, and rely on government welfare are also working in some of the game development companies because the everyday computer has made our money system a virtual (non-existent compared to physical money like Gold) thing rather than something we can see and feel and touch and count. If it's made out of thin air the creators of the infinite money can just confjure it up without working for it. We warned you computers can be made to help the evil men. Jesus was against unfair weights and measures. And these central bankers, EA guys, feminists and SJWs (who work inside these publishers to push a political view on the people buying the games) are in on the scheme. The radical left is desperate to change the society for the worse. Even going so far as to replace men in the military and police with women who are not on the same performance level of men. (those few exceptions of female workers that can match or exceed men deserve to be there, but not the political correct ones who just feel entitled to TAKE positions from others without earning respect and gaining the authority through merit)



I can't wait for the sex robots to rule over everything. We need them to merge with humans to combine forces to combat violent SJWs and radical feminist who are very militant now. If we get armed when the money runs out, the violent mobs will have to go through armed citizens before they can bring about violent revolution which is what they will plan in the future when they starve due to lacking responsibility.

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22 Nov 2017 08:34 pm
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Victorian government chimes in and says loot boxes are gambling too.

https://powerup-gaming.com/2017/11/22/victorian-gambling-authority-loot-boxes-gambling/

Quote:
The normalisation of gambling vernacular targeted at minors is morally reprehensible


Looks like our nanny state is on it!


23 Nov 2017 05:26 am
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unfnknblvbl wrote:
They got greedy, and somebody in power finally noticed. Now the whole games industry is probably going to get either regulated or heavily scrutinised from now on as a result. EA have probably ruined everything for everyone with this.

Yep. This is the problem.
Overwatch was fine.

Lootboxes in F2P are fine.
What's going to happen to games like LoL and Dota?

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23 Nov 2017 07:46 am
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Game industry is doomed. The Elder Scrolls have prophetically warned that greedy big business will work with giants in big government once they have been paid to turn a blind eye. That is why comic books like Batman are so popular because he is the cop the people rely on not the corrupt government funded ones.

You want to kill EA? Stop buying it. Don't worry about watchdog groups. Remember what I said about the Flood Zombies in Halo. What was the solution to killing an already-dead monster which can't be killed? You starve it to death and that is what the ancients did in Halo. Then the covenent came to free them like the americans did the Grey aliens/Grigori back when Phil Schneider was in charge of drilling into the earth and discovered they drilled too deeply and now the greys are running around causing chaos and abducting people.

To advance you must learn the lesson of the past so you don't repeat them again. It's like the One Ring. Man didn't throw the ring in the crack of doom when he had the chance to end it right there but chose to keep it because the Ring promised him power over everyone if he kept it. And then the elves got pissed when the Ring took over the minds of the ring bearer (because there is an evil spirit living inside it) and had to throw it away again because men failed to heed the warnings. (causing lots of unecessary deaths as orcs problem grew over time and they bred like rabbits for the bad guys to eventually kill off men and make them extinct. If you don't have christian morals and values, you can not preserve your race's existence. The evil will come back and you just repeat the cycle. To break it, you got to have responsibility as the balance to put your power in check. You can't have power without the responsibility. They are linked together. Problem is people are dumb and will buy the shit products giving EA unimaginary influence over the other companies, and collapse the game industry.

The americans already did it in the atari days, and they will collapse the industry again. They lust after money and forget that someone has to work for the money so when they come home from work they don't want to play a game that is a busy-work simulator which they already have in REAL life. LOL They want to be entertained, not a guineapig for EA to experiment on to see how they can extract the maximum amount of money out of for the minimum amount of entertainment. But the central banking elites have taught them how to act like dicks to the people who buy the things. And now it's become normalised. (capcom don't dare turn monster hunter into a loot box game HAHA)

Jesus said the love of money is the root of all evil. If you don't love it then you are free of being an idol worshipper. It can't save you. Because the satanists in power today can just create money from thin air with their computers and pass it off as the real thing. Trust in the prophecies. YOU have the power because you WORK for the money so if one day you refuse to work (give your right hand over to it which is your work hand or sword hand in ancient times) for the evil products the bad guys make, then you can starve the big greedy giants of their power and get them to listen. It all comes down to voting with your wallet not whinging on social media or asking government to do it for you. Lawyers can't do shit. They are like mercenaries that will work for the highest bidder. Only YOU can by walking away. Just like MGTOW are walking away from the feminist system and family courts. And then you teach others how to avoid the traps. So they can save money and be happy. Too many people want to compete for power and not empower others to avoid wasting their power feeding the Flood Zombies who want to extract life from the living.

WALK...AWAY. Vote with wallets. They will get the message as money is the only language they speak. Not empty threats. Not government. (the MRA still trying to change the system and failed because feminist outvote men so the government will side with the villain if they have to in order to maintain its job) Learn from history. And don't let them brainwash your kids in public schools. It is a recruitment agency to getting the government to turn the kids against YOU and make you out to be an abusive parent so they can own the future by owning your kids and giving them to pedophile rings through foster care system.


Governments want stable family (with dads as boss) dead: - now do you know why MGTOW is growing?

-Americans = stubborn men who didn't WALK AWAY by throwing the One Ring away and angered the Elves for being stupid.

-Mindless hordes of consumers who buy EA shit = orc army (they feed the wizard their power by working for them ie 'giving over your right hand to the beast' as mentioned in the bible when the antichrist rules over the world)

-Buyers who vote with their wallet = high elves who were there in ancient times pissed that man didn't chuck the One Ring away when they had the chance to end it there and then

-Little kids = hobbits (don't know what is going on because they live in their sheltered comunities and unaware of what lootboxes are and how they ruin the balance of games which will collapse the game industry with busy work crap)

-EA = saruman thinking the evil can be tamed and controlled to be used to your advantage by containing it and opportunistically exploiting the power

-Reptilians who set up this engineered collapse = Eye of Sauron watching us from spyware embedded inside our game consoles and measuring our progress in-game so they can figure out a way to get us to buy more useless crap. (see activision patent on how to turn gamers into payers)

You guys are not going to survive when the shit hits the fan without the morals to resist evil seduction of power. Look at Respawn. They whored themselves off to EA because they fear freedom.

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23 Nov 2017 08:34 am
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Peppermint Lounge wrote:
Entertaining Battlefront 2 review from one of my favourite game reviewers.



I hope Disney gives the license to non- wallet rapey game companies in future.
EA has had it too easy. They should do a poll to ask fans which company should be in charge of future SW shooters.
It's getting shit reviews despite being fun in basic form.


What happened to the guys behind GoldenEye and the Timesplitters games? Are they still around ?

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23 Nov 2017 06:21 pm
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Not only is Battlefront's loot boxes and progression a joke, so is the story mode. After been sold as Story mode that you play as the Evil empire....

Spoiler: show
After killing hundreds of Rebel Scum then by the third mission you are now Leia's right hand and fighting for the rebellion.


25 Nov 2017 07:05 am
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Destiny 2 lies about XP gain to make grinding take longer:


Play Warframe . Superior and free-er.

UK government says lootboxes are not legally gambling:


Told ya. Don't rely on bureaucrats. Just walk away from games that insult the players or treat them like shit. EA started it and led the other giants to act deceptively. To stop them, you got to vote with money. It's the only language businessmen understand. You have the power not the bureaucrat. You are the boss. You have yourself to blame if you let them get away with it.

If casinos are not illegal, alcohol is not illegal, (to stop alcohol addicts ruining themselves) then I don't think addicting kids to buying virtual slot machine will be made ilegal. Use your brain. This is why piracy can help if made legal. The players could modify games back to being the fun version when they originally bought it in case the latest patch destroys the balance and fun of the game they are playing. When you play online games, the pressure for the developers and publishers to make it less fun so they can make more money is too great. They have the power to ruin the game you bought. Because they can patch out the fun and make it less fun and more grindy at any time they wish. You are at the mercy of the greedy business who sees you as a slave like the dungeon master in the last episode of Dungeons and dragons cartoon. (dungeon master said the kids can leave if they wanted to but only after he got what he wanted from them by exploiting the shit out of them to rescue his son. Pretty dirty trick. He basically kept them in the realm for prolonged period of time for his own selfish reasons,. Same with the blizactivision.


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27 Nov 2017 07:06 am
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Yep saw that with destiny 2, scummy move and I'm glad I passed on that game. I wasn't impressed with progression in the first, this time it's worse with loot engram shit.


27 Nov 2017 08:32 am
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God, can't anyone write an article anymore? No, it's gotta be on be youtube -_-
Anyway, in defense of Destiny 2.
1. "Bright" engrams only contain cosmetic items, so who gives a shit.
2. You get SHOWERED with gear anyway. I've never even used a mod (cosmetic or otherwise) as I know I'll get some new gear in 15 mins or so. I've got so much gear to choose from, and I've never even bought anything from the shop (in game currency or real world) or even done grindy missions for XP/moneys.
3. The game is so damn easy I don't even know why they have levels or XP. It's not like i could go do a mission that was I wasn't a high enough level for and actually have some challenging gameplay. The only level restriction I think is at level 16 (out of 20) which unlocks the raids. 2, raids -_-. And 1 of them is stupidly easy anyway.


27 Nov 2017 05:29 pm
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27 Nov 2017 06:29 pm
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unfnknblvbl wrote:


Great video. He sums it up nicely by suggesting EA is on the lootbox Titanic, steaming towards the regulatory iceberg.

EA deserve to be sunk, not least for what they did to Dead Space/Visceral.


27 Nov 2017 10:06 pm
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https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/28/eas-day-of-reckoning-is-here-after-star-wars-game-uproar.html
Quote:
Electronic Arts' shareholders are running for the hills this month and for good reason.

The company's profitable business model is now at risk after angry gamers revolted over its aggressive in-game moneymaking strategy in "Star Wars Battlefront II."

EA's stock is down 8.5 percent month to date through Tuesday compared with the S&P 500's 2 percent gain, wiping out $3.1 billion of shareholder value. Its competitors Take-Two and Activision Blizzardshares are up 5 percent and 0.7 percent respectively during the same time period.


After EA gave a Dec. quarter sales forecast slightly below Wall Street estimates on Oct. 31, some analysts suspected it was due to the Stars Wars title. The shares fell 4 percent the following day.

:lol: suck it EA!


29 Nov 2017 08:50 am
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I want them to suffer.


29 Nov 2017 09:14 am
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F for Fake wrote:
God, can't anyone write an article anymore? No, it's gotta be on be youtube -_-
Anyway, in defense of Destiny 2.
1. "Bright" engrams only contain cosmetic items, so who gives a shit.
2. You get SHOWERED with gear anyway. I've never even used a mod (cosmetic or otherwise) as I know I'll get some new gear in 15 mins or so. I've got so much gear to choose from, and I've never even bought anything from the shop (in game currency or real world) or even done grindy missions for XP/moneys.
3. The game is so damn easy I don't even know why they have levels or XP. It's not like i could go do a mission that was I wasn't a high enough level for and actually have some challenging gameplay. The only level restriction I think is at level 16 (out of 20) which unlocks the raids. 2, raids -_-. And 1 of them is stupidly easy anyway.


It's not so much about the fun being affected but lack of transparency. If it tells you that you got x amount of xp then just reveal the real number. Why confuse people? Loot games are always about the numbers not the story or the immersion into the world like open world rpgs which are the closest we can get to the pen and paper stuff. (min-maxing not being as important and broken systems not being as big a deal because the world itself is the appeal of the game)

If people don't complain, then nothing gets changed. The squeeky wheel gets the oil. It's a valid criticism.

Also the other danger of making games so grindy and letting developers set the pace for games on the fly is that it can act as a way to prevent players from buying new games from other companies because they are all stuck playing one game only and being there because all their friends are there. Now normally I wouldn't give a shit about that because I like the free market where a given thing is worth what people are willing to pay for it. But the question is do you want the game industry to only be about a few online games that involve grinding away forever and ever and ever, or do you prefer lots of different games to survive? The reason EA don't have to cae about single player gaming anymore is because the sheer amount of money made from loot boxes in multi. That's great news for fans of multiplayer gaming and esport guys. But it comes at the expense of the single player games never being funded and developers who make those gams not having a job anymore and being forced to just make the same shit that EA is making in order to make a living. Pretty boring if you ask me..

I'm looking more at the long term not right now. Right now you still have good games that don't need the loot box shit to make profit. But what if one day EA makes so much money from thier unfun lootbox games and eventually buys out all the other companies that make single player stuff? See? you got to look at this as long term threat that may kill the whole games hobby much like SJWs are killing comics right now. (but in a different way, by making comics unprofitable with unlikeable characters LOL)


Luckily comic fans fought back though._

Withhold money and starve the flood zombies and you can survive. Just like avoiding loot boxes. Don't let crybullies win. Don' let greedy suits ruin fun. Fight evil everywhere.

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29 Nov 2017 12:37 pm
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