Sony "No more PS4 games, see you at PS5 launch"

[Rorschach]

Very true. I would have been perfectly happy with 1080p and 60fps across the board. That neither consoles could deliver was a massive shame.

[t0mby]

4K and 60fps should have been the target for the current generation.

FTFY

4K tellys weren't even a thing when dev kits went out for current gen.

[GameHED]

For next gen consoles I would be fine with
-4K 60FPS for the normal games.
-4K 30FPS for the open world RPG games.

I would much rather have more effects and environment details in my RPG games than smooth frames. You are going to be spending a lot of time in dark caves, looking at goblins raping naked female elves in first person view and staring at your hands in close combat for a very long time. The textures need to be as high quality as you can get. Little details like boob jiggle are necessary advancements in this genre to calculate the impact damage you will suffer falling to the floor as a khajit prostitute assassin whose goal is to kill all the furries in your community because the #metoo campaign failed to get the judges you didn't like out of power in your region and now you became poor and have to do honest work for a living like others which is harder than sneaking up and pickpocketing rich fools and selling their fertility statue to raise money to buy the next dagger.

Zelda Breath of the Wild is the best game ever made and only ran at 24fps and got 10. Cinematic quality like the movies. The Hobbit movies had much higher framerate and people got sick and it made them feel like it wasn't really a movie but a soap opera made for the tv audience and released to cinemas.

[Froggy]

Very true. I would have been perfectly happy with 1080p and 60fps across the board. That neither consoles could deliver was a massive shame.

This is what I'm talking about and it was what the consumers expected. We got sold the crap with the first games not having enough time with the hardware to get the performance but then it never came because as astute people realised with the spec's that it was more than likely not going to be possible. They sold us some mid strength beer when everyone wanted the good stuff. So I think MS realised this and did a big fix with the one x but Sony still with the pro aren't quite convincing me they'll rectify their ways with 5. I hope they go big otherwise my concern is they don't and then Microsoft cost cuts to just beat them instead of go big as well.

[Ambrose Burnside]

Very true. I would have been perfectly happy with 1080p and 60fps across the board. That neither consoles could deliver was a massive shame.

I've been saying that for a while. 1080p and 60fps should have been the standard across the board, if your game doesn't run at that it doesn't pass certification, anything else like 4k an optional extra.

[flipswitch]

Having a performance mode and resolution mode should be standard for next-gen. We’re sort of getting that in some Xbox X games, but it needs to be a requirement for each game.

[lestat]

My biggest concern for next gen is AMD.

AMD haven't made enough progress on the GPU front, nvidia is so far ahead it's quite concerning.

I agree with the rest of what you say, BUT... the Raven Ridge APUs from AMD earlier this year handily beat the current generation of consoles. You gotta remember that this generation has budget APU hardware in there that still manages to go toe to toe with PCs of the era in terms of image quality.
While I'd love to see a raytracing generation of consoles coming up next, I doubt it'll happen.

...and I'm OK with that, given how much nVidia is charging for RTX, and the massive performance hit it entails.

I've been hearing rumors that the next gen systems may ditch the APU concept. Having cpu/gpu on one chip didn't have the positives we thought it was going to bring in terms of draw calls. It limits clocks/thermals and yields since 2 smaller chips can yield better.

If you've seen lately with Epyc and Zen 2, AMD is moving ahead to multi chip package setups. I believe next gen systems may take this approach and use a multi chip package.

This should allow a bigger cpu and gpu without the thermal/clock/yield issues you get trying to ram them on single piece of silicon. Jaguar cores are tiny in comparison to the size of the GPU in current systems, Zen is much larger.

https://fuse.wikichip.org/news/1815/amd ... 2-details/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;




The middle diagram setup with the GPU is your potential next gen setup.


By 2020, this package process will be more cost effective and HBM2 will drop in price.

[t0mby]

No matter what specs the next gen is, the PC Peasants will find a way to diss it in one way or another. Bottleneck here, not enough ram there, but it doesn't do 8K/60fps cos that will be the norm in 2023 etc etc.

[GameHED]

I will still be playing daggerfall on the pentium 75 in windows95 so I couldn't give a shit. The crappier the graphics the more it reminds me of how much better gaming was in the old days because developers still had passion. The old Duke Nukem 3D game is still better than the new one. Old fallout games are still more proper rpg games than new ones. And Old Dues Ex is still better than new ones.

Yes the graphics are amazing but it means games are getting shittier. (compare the AI of half life games to Call of Duty where enemies just run away from you when you walk forward.)

All the money of today's games is sunk on marketing. While games like Demon Souls and Dragonball Fighter Z and Kingdom Come use decent specs not huge hardware upgrade to play. People are fine with shit graphics otherwise nintendo would be out of business long ago. Fact is when games get too gritty and realistic it sparks controversy. I remember when Soldier of Fortune came out and the whole gimmick of the game was the gore system which let you blow off limbs and see all the bones and meat on the dead guy. There are advantages to shit graphics. Imagine if you could see Donkey Kong's nutsack because nintendo decided it was a good idea to make the cartoon character a realistic animal. You would not want to see naked animal in a platform game as its nutsack bobs up and down while you stomp on things. Only the sick people want that level of details. PC gamers have to understand that not all of us are furries. Not all of us get off on seeing bugs bunny nude when watching warner bros cartoons and wishing it was a realistic rabbit with humanoid shape. We want cartoony art style like Dragonball FighterZ or Street Fighter III Third Strike because it just looks cool. Some games need the realistic look but usually you break the immersion when you realise how limited your interaction is with the environment and the illusion is destroyed from prolonged play anyway. GTA5 for instance would be more fun if you didn't run like a realistic guy but were snappier in your actions. We know this after hundreds of hours of playing games.

[Peppermint Lounge]

No matter what specs the next gen is, the PC Peasants will find a way to diss it in one way or another. Bottleneck here, not enough ram there, but it doesn't do 8K/60fps cos that will be the norm in 2023 etc etc.

It's being locked to 30fps that sucks. Once you're used to high refresh rates 30fps looks horrible.

[GameHED]

Locked 30fps is better than jumping around to different fps.

60 is good for racers.
30 with better detail is good for open world rpg games.
Ask other hardcore gamers who play games across all platforms and not just weaksauce pc gamers.

Environments that look lived in and real is more important for those immersive games. Multiplayer modes are always best at 60fps of course. That's why this gen was premature and if they just prolonged the last gen a bit longer it would have been fine to skip the tard editions of ps4 and XB one. Next gen consoles should not cheap out like nintendo with the Wii. (people made fun of them and now when sony did it with ps4 and ms did it with xb one all of a sudden people are seriously defending them.)

Stretch this gen longer if they have to.

[t0mby]

No matter what specs the next gen is, the PC Peasants will find a way to diss it in one way or another. Bottleneck here, not enough ram there, but it doesn't do 8K/60fps cos that will be the norm in 2023 etc etc.

It's being locked to 30fps that sucks. Once you're used to high refresh rates 30fps looks horrible.

I struggle to see a big enough difference to care when I watched that. I don't mean that in a rude way, it just looked so negligible to me.

[Rorschach]

The best example of it is the Uncharted 4 60fps fake video. Guy played it in slo-mo mode and then sped the footage up to make it look 60fps. Result is looked awesome and would have been a high selling point for the PS4 Pro had it offered unlocked frame rates. I think this has been a relatively good generation, just not as ground breaking as the 360/PS3 era.

[GameHED]

Yep this was the remaster generation.
Not that I'm complaining. GTA5 FPV edition, Dark Souls Remastered and Bioshock re-releases were welcome. Skyrim was a no brainer.
It's an excuse to replay the old games again. But next gen needs to be the "lets do new shit now" generation.

World of Warcraft classic re-release as much as people want to relive memories isn't as exciting as hearing something about Elder Scrolls 6 or Starfield.

If the game isn't breaking up relationships or causing kids to wag school to play them then you aren't making your games addictive enough.
Scientists and shit know this but they are too busy playing skyrim to publish the findings.

[guttermouth]

Picked up a new PS4 Pro today. It's the new updated model which runs so much quieter. The only visible difference is the power cord has a different connection. Is the figure 8 looking connection and no longer the kettle looking connection

[t0mby]

Did you get u get a good deal?

[guttermouth]

Yeah 499 with Spiderman, Fallout and God of War from the cunts at EB

[Peppermint Lounge]

I struggle to see a big enough difference to care when I watched that. I don't mean that in a rude way, it just looked so negligible to me.

Did you watch it on a decent display? 50% more frames per second can't be negligible. It's not that we can't acclimatise to 30fps. Modern TVs have some tricks to mitigate it further. The ye olde 30fps target still sucks because i) 60fps looks so much better and ii) when you're used to 60fps or more and often 100fps or more it's a big jolt back to 30. The PC platform consoles now and certainly into the future can do good visuals at higher refresh rates. Hopefully more console games in the future will release with configuration menus so players can choose.

[GameHED]

If we go to 4K and don't get 60fps consistent throughout the entire game would you be angry?

My guess is developers will still keep targeting 30fps due to not wanting to compromise on beauty. To me it's about the feel and control of my character. I love the 60fps but for slow paced games (open world RPG) I want longer draw distances and details and more enemies and activity. Not all developers specialise in making action games and the appeal is in how immersive the experience is. PC will always have upgrade option but developers who make for console have to decide which is more important based on the player experience. If for instance there is a level with dozens of enemies all trying to kill you, they may not be able to keep it 4K 60FPS and it affects the gameplay when the player reacts to danger. So if they don't have the skill to get consistent framerates it results in player missing his headshots and getting frustrated that the experience is stuttering at that one busy section. It's about QA and balance for me. An ugly game that runs smooth consistently will always beat out one that is trying to look good but will make my life hard on some areas.

I remember when Strider 2 was ported to PS1 and I couldn't time my moves due to the machine not being able handle the last boss area. You don't want that in console land or people will return to EBGames. PC guys have no refunds after 2 hours last I checked so if a port is poorly handled you are doomed to stick with it until patches. The reason console guys feel "safe" buying a overpriced version of a game on a less powerful system is the convenience of knowing the developers designed the game with the console's hardwae limits in mind from the start. There is a feeling of security knowing that "X game will stay consistent in framerates no matter what part of the map I'm in or how many enemies the game throws at me at once" and it is one of the appealing things about console. PC guys I get it you love the power but you have to understand gaming is now mainstream and not just a domain for the nerds. The nerd loves tinkering with options and so these triple A publishers feel pressured to produce products for the lowest common denominator. (look at Fortnite's graphics as proof. This is the game the big publishers want to copy and cash in on to keep shareholder's happy now. It reminds me of how nintendo survive: basic minimalistic visuals but with high response controls)

[t0mby]

I struggle to see a big enough difference to care when I watched that. I don't mean that in a rude way, it just looked so negligible to me.

Did you watch it on a decent display? 50% more frames per second can't be negligible. It's not that we can't acclimatise to 30fps. Modern TVs have some tricks to mitigate it further. The ye olde 30fps target still sucks because i) 60fps looks so much better and ii) when you're used to 60fps or more and often 100fps or more it's a big jolt back to 30. The PC platform consoles now and certainly into the future can do good visuals at higher refresh rates. Hopefully more console games in the future will release with configuration menus so players can choose.

I'll be honest, I watched it on my phone. I know there are two types of 30fps, there's fast 30fps and there's smooth 30fps, but it can't be both. PGR2 was fast 30fps, essentially every second frame was missed so it looked fast. But then you had Racing Evoluzione which was a beautiful looking game, silky smooth but sooooo slow.

Gamers want the best looking games in screenshots, we've seen it all before. You can have a great looking game at 60fps but as soon as you pause it and upload a pic, the lestats of the world will nit pick the aliasing, prebaked lighting, 2D leaves on trees etc, so the devs make everything awesome, but it has to be at a cost of 30fps and then the lestats of the world complain that although the game looks great, it's 30fps and has controller lag.

[Rorschach]

I just looked up Racing Evoluzione, never heard of it. Still a decent looking game. The screen tearing of that generation was awful though.

[t0mby]

I just looked up Racing Evoluzione, never heard of it. Still a decent looking game. The screen tearing of that generation was awful though.

It was one of those 30fps racers that no matter how fast the car was, it felt like you were driving at 50kph. Fans here of PGR2 will admit that PGR2 felt fast for its time as explained above. Point being, you can have smooth 30fps but they can feel slow and I know how silky smooth a 60fps game can feel but it's not a deal breaker for me in most games.

[GameHED]

Most console gamers would agree with 4K 60FPS for racing games being the norm for next gen. But I think for less talented developers who are not coding gods, 30fps4K for open world rpg games is going to be the choice that is targeted. There are too many objects in a given area and npcs and other things the game needs to keep updated. Multiplayer modes are going to be 60FPS most likely nextgen at 4K.

The thing I'm worried more about is the removal of titty jiggle from games on console. They took it out of one of the emotes/dance animations in Fortnite. The feminists are hyper vigilant against realism when it comes to boobs which is ridiculous. We are regressing back to the days when games are seen as entertainment only for little kids. This was what baby boomers thought of gamers back in the 90s in the mortal kombat days. Everytime there was a shooting doom would get blamed too heheh

Now their friends; the SJW (mostly millenials) are taking after them. Titty jiggle and butt wobble are the reason I select female characters in my third person RPG games. I don't like it when game developers cave into the SJW and feminist who don't have an interest in games and won't even buy the products. We have to teach them that sex and nudity is fine and nothing to be ashamed of because I predict companies believe that these political activist groups actually matter when in reality they had no interest in buying games. (just pushing an agenda) It's causing males to boycott certain games to protest the changes which may affect sales/profits. (which result in people losing jobs) It's a serious issue.

Tech will always improve to solve the FPS issue(that's what remasters of old games have done. Dark Souls Remaster looks great in 60fps on console). But having fake gamers infiltrating the industry and affecting how a story is told is ruining the entertainment medium which we all know is predominantly a male space and the only reason it's being targeted and not movies/film industry. Slutty females who like to get beaten up by a rich man in 50 shades of grey for money is totally fine and doesn't upset the outrage mob, (because their own mom likes to watch that in secret) but beating up a feminist in Red Dead Redemption 2 gets headlines? Hypocrisy. Now imagine if there were prostitutes in the next GTA game, where you can beat them up and whip them and cause them pain while screwing them in exchange for giving them the stolen wallet you picked off the floor after winning a fight. I bet it would be banned. But it's ok in film industry. This needs to change! Tell your bosses at sony gamers want unensored games tomby. You can reason with them. Titty bounce for R.Mika and butt wobble for Ivy in Soul Calibur is what will make me buy a game. (assuming it's not crap in gameplay) It's time to pressure companies to support male spaces to counter the SJW pressure to support "mommy porn" in film. If the SJW gets 50 shades of grey where a man's only value is his wealth, then it should be ok to objectify the females in videogames and their value is the beauty and youth. (which is what has always been done in porn and the only reason it's not attacked is because the CIA owns it lol) This to me is equality. Femininsts don't want equality now, they want special powers. The balance has shifted away from what customers want to now being what SJW and fake game journalists wants. I think Ubisoft is slowly waking up to this now and promises to pay attention to the gamers more now..

[lestat]

It's all down to the input polling imo.

I've been playing around with 60hz/144hz monitors, at the end of the day, visually smooth is nice but it's the input lag that is the gameplay deal breaker.

30hz games which can have 2-3 frames buffered in the engine, just feel laggy and imprecise for fast paced games. 60hz is desirable with very little noticeable lag, plus you get the visual fluidity boost.

Games like forza cheat and have 30fps graphics update but do 60-300hz input polling and do physics at much higher rates than the visual update. That's why they still feel responsive and playable even with the 30fps visual update.

120hz+ is holy grail, lifelike fluidity and sub 10ms input delays, the ultimate for twitch gameplay.

[t0mby]

I'm too old for twitch game play