Windows 11

[Ambrose Burnside]

My 6700k system runs UEFI secure boot and TPM 2.0. Obviously a 6700k with 16gb of ddr4 memory would breeze through Windows 11 so I don't understand why it's not compatible.

Yep, we have the same processor and RAM and I've also enabled both secure boot and TPM 2.0 after some mucking about.

It's madness. Hopefully Microsoft come to their senses.

[Froggy]

All the BIOS shenanigans have been sorted though. Windowss 11 tool just says my processor isn't compatible now. Bullshit.

Looks like they're considering backing down on this now, and considering supporting 7th gen Intel and Zen 1 AMD. Which is good, but they're still not consistent. They need to list the technologies required by Windows 11, rather than CPU generations. Zen+ doesn't support anything extra (in terms of instruction features like SSE, etc) over Zen 1, so why do they support one but not the other? It's also no secret secret that Intel 8th gen was just a "moar cores!" refresh of 7th gen (which was in turn a refresh of 6th gen). As far as I can tell, there's no architectural difference between them.
If this was Microsoft saying "no we need x cores as a minimum" I would understand, but the minimum for that is two. Two!! That means an a Pentium Gold G5400 is supported for limping along while an R7 1800X from the previous year that can run rings around it in every benchmark that matters is excluded.

Bonkers.

My cynical mind wanders to how much input they received from Intel and AMD on this. They are especially close to AMD so I find it hard to believe there's been no input.

[Froggy]

My 6700k system runs UEFI secure boot and TPM 2.0. Obviously a 6700k with 16gb of ddr4 memory would breeze through Windows 11 so I don't understand why it's not compatible.

Yep, we have the same processor and RAM and I've also enabled both secure boot and TPM 2.0 after some mucking about.

It's madness. Hopefully Microsoft come to their senses.

Is Secure Boot a requirement on win11? P

[Twiztid Elf]

This sounds like a Windows Vista level clusterfuck.

[Peppermint Lounge]

Is Secure Boot a requirement on win11? P

Yes.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows ... ifications

[unfnknblvbl]

As far as I can make out, Windows 10 and 11 both perform virtually identically on identical hardware. This isn't like going from XP to Vista, so this will perform just fine on literally any CPU with more than one core.

MS have apparently come out to say that there requirement is all about virtualised based security, where the underlying tech is only a fairly recent development.
To which I say that I've literally never lost data from a boot sector attack (or any virus, to be honest). But I have lost data because MS's security tools think that all keygens are viruses and should be deleted.. I'm not sure I trust their idea of "security"

[Ambrose Burnside]

There's a tool here that offers more info than Microsoft's own (now pulled) tool: https://github.com/rcmaehl/WhyNotWin11

I get the OK for Architecture Boot Method, CPU Core Count, CPU Frequency, DirectX + WWDM2, Disk Partition Type, RAM, Secure Boot, Storage Available and TPM Version.

CPU Compatibility? "Not currently listed as Compatible"

[unfnknblvbl]

It has something to do with Virtualisation Based Security. Apparently Intel 7th Gen and earlier, and AMD Zen 1 and earlier don't properly support it (although the newer ones support a subset of this).

I get it, but holy shit it's a dick move. My company is going to have to upgrade every single machine. We have a stack of perfectly good spare HP EliteDesk units that are just going to be e-waste now.

MS really need to provide a carve-out for DIY machines.

[Peppermint Lounge]

I had another look at latest info and it appears MS are moving to support 6th gen Skylake and 1st gen Ryzen with Windows 11.

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/microsoft ... rocessors/

According to some owners of the Microsoft Surface Pro 4 which uses Intel’s 6th Gen Skylake processors, the incompatibility tips in the Windows 11 Insider/Preview version have disappeared, indicating that Microsoft may drop the minimum processor requirements to the 6th Gen Core processors.

Furthermore, the company has removed the line from its original Windows 11 blog post that stated that the 6th Gen Core and Zen 1 processors would be incompatible with the new operating system.

[unfnknblvbl]

It's a good start, but it still needs work. While I'm sure hardly anyone runs a Bulldozer or a Core 2 anymore, those architectures are still perfectly legitimate for passing on to your parents as email-and-ebay machines, and they run Windows 11 just fine (until MS decides to flick the switch).

[Ambrose Burnside]

I had another look at latest info and it appears MS are moving to support 6th gen Skylake and 1st gen Ryzen with Windows 11.

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/microsoft ... rocessors/

According to some owners of the Microsoft Surface Pro 4 which uses Intel’s 6th Gen Skylake processors, the incompatibility tips in the Windows 11 Insider/Preview version have disappeared, indicating that Microsoft may drop the minimum processor requirements to the 6th Gen Core processors.

Furthermore, the company has removed the line from its original Windows 11 blog post that stated that the 6th Gen Core and Zen 1 processors would be incompatible with the new operating system.

Well I certainly hope so!

I have no real interest in upgrading my PC in the middle of a covid/crypto stock shortage with inflated prices.

Which will only get worse if Microsoft force upgrades on everyone.

[Ambrose Burnside]

Intel has those wondering about the release date of Windows 11 in a frenzy, ever since the company updated its “planned release” notes about its drivers. Microsoft hasn’t come forth with an exact launch date for the operating system just yet, simply claiming that it will happen later this year (originally stating that it could delay into the next as they slowly roll it out to supported machines).

However, Intel’s notes had made reference to “Windows* 11-64 – October 2021 Update – version 21H2” for the latest upcoming update to the Intel drivers for processors ranging as far back as the 6th Gen Skylake family.

Source

Some more promising tidbits.

[Ambrose Burnside]

Looks like MS are doubling down on their system requirements.

Pricks:

After a few months of users testing and providing feedback, Microsoft says that, for the most part, its system requirements from June will stand — but there are a few notable changes.

This means that you'll need a compatible 64-bit processor, 4GB of memory and 64GB of storage, as well as "UEFI secure boot, graphics requirements and TPM 2.0." For the most part, Microsoft is still requiring an 8th-generation or newer Intel processor, but the company is adding a few 7th-generation Intel options to the supported list, including Intel Core X-series, Xeon W-series and the Intel Core 7820HQ. For the latter, Microsoft will only support "select devices that shipped with modern drivers based on Declarative, Componentized, Hardware Support Apps (DCH) design principles, including Surface Studio 2."

After working with AMD, Microsoft has declined to include the first generation of AMD Zen processors in its officially supported list. The full list of supported processors can be found here.

[F for Fake]

Looks like my Ryzen 5 2600 is supported. Maybe I'll stop using Windows 7 by then

[lestat]

I don't really have any desire to go to windows 11, especially since my home desktop is used for WFH, I'd rather not have to deal with buggy shit preventing me from doing my job and wasting time trying to relearn the UI.

Windows 10 is getting the direct storage stuff anyways, which is all I care about for future games.

I don't know, a lot of the changes look to strip features/options slowing you down imo.

[Peppermint Lounge]

Yeah I'm happy to pass. Strange to see a company of Microsoft's resources have such a confusing mess of a launch for their flagship product.

[Mavy]

It's like the Xbox One team moved on to windows

[Ambrose Burnside]

It's like the Xbox One team moved on to windows

It's a weird shift from "we want one billion devices running Windows 10, the last ever version of Windows, so will be doing everything we can to push it to as many devices as possible" to "Here's Windows 11. None of you will be able to run it, so I dunno, buy new hardware during a global pandemic and hardware shortage or something lol"

[unfnknblvbl]

The Microsoft cycle just keeps on churning. It's like they know it exists and do their best to reinforce it.

[Ambrose Burnside]

To zero fanfare, Windows 11 is now out.

Windows Update now has a message for me telling me my PC isn't compatible. Haven't clicked on the link to see what their advice is, cos I know it'll boil down to "buy a new PC".

Might at some point see if my laptop is compatible just to test it out. It's newer than my PC, but nowhere near as powerful, so it'll probably work fine.

[BOOMY]

So is win 11 something I need to care about?
Why did they upgrade?
Do i need to upgrade?
what are the benefits if any?

School me, as I have not cared or heard a thing about it.

[unfnknblvbl]

So is win 11 something I need to care about?
Why did they upgrade?
Do i need to upgrade?
what are the benefits if any?

School me, as I have not cared or heard a thing about it.

At the moment, it's just a (significantly) prettier version of Windows 10. There's no real performance increases, and apparently if you enable Virtualisation Based Security (which actually sounds nifty), it's a huge performance hit in gaming. VBS would be especially good for enterprise users.

Buuuut as with all things Microsoft, the progressions come with very confusing regressions. If Windows 10 was the Xbox 360, then Windows 11 is the Xbox One. The new Start Menu is alright, but if you disable recent files, then you can't use half of its available space. The centred Start button is an Accessibility nightmare, and the inability to move the taskbar to a different edge of the screen is inconceivably stupid UX design. The new Settings app is very nice indeed, but even though it's supposed to replace the Control Panel in the long run, they've... managed to make the Control Panel when more useful than ever before?
Also, Teams is now integrated into Windows directly. Make of that what you will, I guess.

Oh. And if your PC is older than Intel 8x00 or AMD Ryzen 2x00, well you're screwed and can't officially run it anyway.

The number of completely idiotic small changes - imo - utterly overwhelms any improvements they've made. I think the biggest selling point of Windows 11 is VBS, but I think that's available in W10, and isn't at all relevant to almost all home users anyway.
This isn't like with previous releases where even the stupid choices were offset by significant technology improvements.

[Ambrose Burnside]

Microsoft is such an infuriating company. Like their thought processes make no sense, especially their pattern of doing something well, then fucking it up, then doing it well etc. Why don't they learn the right lessons?

[unfnknblvbl]

Microsoft is such an infuriating company. Like their thought processes make no sense, especially their pattern of doing something well, then fucking it up, then doing it well etc. Why don't they learn the right lessons?

It's like they're just deliberately perpetuating the meme. Performance-wise, the minimum spec is just completely arbitrary. Intel 8th generation isn't markedly better than 7th gen, and Ryzen 2000 is about the same performance jump over the 1000 series.
Yaaaay, security. Yaaaay, can't recycle perfectly fine old PC parts anymore.

[BOOMY]

so no benefits what so ever.
like what the actual fuck then?

obviously a bad decision overall and no one sounds happy about it but what were they actually thinking when they did this, like what are the benefits in their eyes? if you were to give some diplomatic answer that can make this seem even slightly objectively a good decision, what would it be?