World of Warcraft fucking sucks

[Seraph]

Does BB still limit you to four characters per account?

[Pat]

Pat I think you will find that if we took CoD2 more seriously, the same type of crazy feelings you see in WoW could manifest themselves.

It all depends on how serious you take the game, I've seen psychotic CS players too and that game is essentially an older version of CoD2 search and destroy.

I've got no doubt you would see problems - Splinter Cell 2 online brings back not-so-fond memories of such issues. However, in those sorts of games the negative effects are more an issue of temper, impatience and tension. Since there is no material gain of loot or items, jealousy itself does not come into it. And I think there is quite the distinction between jealousy/greed and anger.

This probably reflects more on my philosophy than anything, but I think games with more material objects to gain/lose are those that are more dangerous.

[Sonic Jam]

Everyone got a reward, only 4 can use it immediately and they will have to work with the players who didn't get a reward immediately for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time to pay back the price of their reward.

Everyone is equal with a good system, and that's the part I hate... There is no reward for being an individule and skilled player, only a reward for being average and not getting your raid wiped.

[Sonic Jam]

Pat I think you will find that if we took CoD2 more seriously, the same type of crazy feelings you see in WoW could manifest themselves.

It all depends on how serious you take the game, I've seen psychotic CS players too and that game is essentially an older version of CoD2 search and destroy.

I've got no doubt you would see problems - Splinter Cell 2 online brings back not-so-fond memories of such issues. However, in those sorts of games the negative effects are more an issue of temper, impatience and tension. Since there is no material gain of loot or items, jealousy itself does not come into it. And I think there is quite the distinction between jealousy/greed and anger.

This probably reflects more on my philosophy than anything, but I think games with more material objects to gain/lose are those that are more dangerous.

Well with any large PC online game the issues pop up just as much sa WoW, the reason you don't see it on XBL is cos the community is so small and there is no competition... Beleive me when I say people get insane over WC3, CS, BF2, and a host of other PC games when it comes to competition.

WoW has a higher %, but I think that's just the way it is with pay for play games, they attract that demographic.

[Pointy Cat]

I understand how MMOs work, Ekin, it's ok I might've got a little sidetracked when I wrote that though, because it seems I forgot to mention the most irritating thing. As for the raids thing - again, generally the rewards go to the guys who have been playing for a while, not necessarily the players who have been playing the best games. It's a subjective, flawed system, implemented to try and minimise the damage done by WoW's luck-based, and therefore also flawed, system.

40 guys spent 6 hours doing a raid so they could take down the main boss. 4 of them got a reward, not necessarily based on who did the most in the raid.

On one level I dislike that because a guy that is less skilled than another player might get an item over him.
But the main reason I dislike it is because 40 guys worked together, and only 4 got a reward.

But to get that that boss, say Ragnaros for example, you have to kill nine bosses, each drop at least 3 items, and on the way there's bound to be more items drop off trash mobs. So in a full run of than instance there would be around 30 tems to go around. Of course it's not as simple as that, as not everything is wanted and such, but the point that 40 people go to take down the main boss and only four of them at most can get rewarded is also too simplistic and incorrect. A lot more than four people will get rewarded in the whole instance run.

[Ekin]

Yes its highly likely that you spend 6-8 hours in a raid and come out empty handed. However that time will count towards your DKP, while the players that get loot will have DKP deductions. Meaning the next time that particular item drops you'll have a better chance of getting it and you'll have a better chance of getting items overall because you have more DKP.

Molten Core is the instance that you're talking about (Ragnaros is the final boss, hes in the video that made ilce crazy) and there are 9 bosses each drop about 2-3 items plus you get a few extras along the way.

You average about 26 items per run so as i said its really not that bad.

[Seraph]

So in other words, like I said, it rewards time more than skill, and the first people to get the good gear are the oldest players, not the best players. Thanks for clearing that up

[Ekin]

Everyone is equal with a good system, and that's the part I hate... There is no reward for being an individule and skilled player, only a reward for being average and not getting your raid wiped.

I think its different with WoW. If you manage to take down a boss and keep your party from wiping thats skill enough. Afterall thats all they're asking from you.

[Pointy Cat]

Any MMORPG is like that. They're timesinks. Time is the major factor that advances you in any MMORPG, skill is secondary. I thought that point is well known?

[mxlegend99]

How can people get so addicted to them? Outside of Oblivion, which i put 80 hours into. No game has had me going back to finish stuff for the sake of doing it. Surely they would want some sense of achievement for the efforts put in?

[Ekin]

So in other words, like I said, it rewards time more than skill, and the first people to get the good gear are the oldest players, not the best players. Thanks for clearing that up

The skill part comes from 40 people working together. Individually its not a steep curve learning the boss strategies.

In this case the oldest players ARE the best players because they have more experience. Usually they will have better gear, more fire resistance gear for example and have farmed for potions stuff like that, that you would do in your own time. Only the older players know that this is important and would go out of their own way to prepare their character in the best possible way.

[Sonic Jam]

Yeah, and that's why WoW is my first and probably only real MMORPG (after the diablo clone that is PSO).

I love Blizzard/Warcraft so I was able to live with the flaws in WoW for a long time, but after a while I got bored of how little you actualy have to do in the end game content.. It became boring to me compared to other online games where you consistently improve your skills rather than just your knowledge of boss encounters and gear drops.

I don't have anything against people who do play and I can completely understand the addiction, but I preffer a game that rewards individule excellence in the long run.

If they had as much 5 man content in the end game as they had 40 man content I would still be playing WoW today, because hardcore 5 man content is really rewarding.

[Seraph]

It's certainly no secret, and I wasn't trying to make it sound like I'd figured out the conspiracy behind MMOs. I was just saying that it's the main (well, only, really) issue I have with the game. The chances of you getting Item X are more dependant upon time playing the game, time in Guild X, and luck, than they are on skill. That's irritating.

Just like the BS drop rates in PSO. 1 in 512 for Mil Lily then 1/205 chance of it dropping Psycho Wand... you lucky bastard pointycat

[Sonic Jam]

How can people get so addicted to them? Outside of Oblivion, which i put 80 hours into. No game has had me going back to finish stuff for the sake of doing it. Surely they would want some sense of achievement for the efforts put in?

There's plenty of achievement in downing huge bosses and working co-operatively with 39 other people to do it.

Plenty of achievement in getting phat lewt and gear.

[Beer Belly]

Everyone should play Phantasy Star Online: Blue Burst

The Xbox 360 controller makes it sex!

Fuck! Is it out?

[Ekin]

If they had as much 5 man content in the end game as they had 40 man content I would still be playing WoW today, because hardcore 5 man content is really rewarding.

Thats what i want! And it looks like we'll have to wait for the expansion before they bring out any new 5 man instances.

Just like the BS drop rates in PSO. 1 in 512 for Mil Lily then 1/205 chance of it dropping Psycho Wand... you lucky bastard pointycat

They sound like good odds

[Sonic Jam]

I will be buying the expansion pack in the most pimped out edition that becomes available, but I won't be playing it unless there are a shitload of 5 man instances to be conquered.

What server are you on Ekin?

[General Chaos]

(Ragnaros is the final boss, hes in the video that made ilce crazy)

The boring one?

Pat is OTM with regards to XBL games not making people jealous etc etc. Though there can be plenty of temper induced spite towards people while you are playing.

Having said that lack of sleep and doing the same thing over and over will have a detrimental effect on peoples minds. When we played PGR2 non stop we were all very narky at each other and I'm sure were more narky in general day to day life.

I could be wrong but DJ seemed to go through a narky streak for a little while there which he seemed to snap out of when he jumped on board the next gen bandwagon and got into some casual xbl gaming with us.

Too much of anything is likely to break someone I just find WoW to go above and beyond due to its addictive nature.

[Ekin]

Im on Dragonmaw. Three level 60's Warrior, Hunter and Priest.

Im too scared to type /played to check my total play time.

[Pointy Cat]

I too want more 5 man instances. I enjoy 40 man instances, and I'm in a large guild that is current making its way through AQ40 (cockblocked at Twin Emps for now) but it can get old. Everything is too planned now and rigid, it's hard to find the original allure of WoW these days, which was the ability to jump on and have a quick bash and actually get somewhere value the game had during 1- 60 and shortly after 60.

I've had to cut down the amount I play recently anyway as a lot of stuff is now happening in my life, but at least I'm the kind that can actually do that heh. If I have a lot of free time, which sometimes I do, I can really get into something like WoW and play a fuckload. But I'd never mold life around life around it, as soon as something requires me to play less I do just that.

Blizzard do claim there'll be more focus on smaller (5-10) man instances in The Burning Crusade. I hope so. The big 40 man raid instances are all good and all, but Blizzard seem to have forgotten what balance is.

[Ekin]

(Ragnaros is the final boss, hes in the video that made ilce crazy)

The boring one?

It's really quite exciting when you're playing. A wipe means 15 minutes to rebuff and resurrect everyone. Also a durability loss on your equipment which can get expensive not to mention the wasted potions that take time and money to create. The build up leading to the fight is something like 9 bosses and 6 hours or so. So they do have a lot riding on him...also the anticipation that you get when you face him and the chance that the item you've been waiting weeks for or perhaps months may finally drop for you.

I've been playing for too long.




I have to admit for an outsider it would be boring because you wouldnt know what the fuck is going on.

[Peppermint Lounge]

I will be buying the expansion pack in the most pimped out edition that becomes available, but I won't be playing it unless there are a shitload of 5 man instances to be conquered.

Yeah 5 man instances were among my favourite times with the game. My main was a rogue so 5 man instances were far more fun to play than MC.

[Sonic Jam]

So we're all agreed then? 40 man becomes boring when that's all you ever do? 5 man FTW?

Good, Cowboy WoW guild to start up with Burning Crusade, 5 man instances exclusively!

[Talez]

Does BB still limit you to four characters per account?

Yes.

Fuck! Is it out?

Ages ago!

It's not PSU though which you may be thinking of. Blue Burst is Version 2 + Episode II + Episode IV.

[General Chaos]

Sounds like a plan. Not that I would partake in such instances.

A bloke I work with was heavily involved in organising a guild and looking after a forum. He Retired from the possy and the game and feels so much better for it.

He suggested that he also hated 40 man raids and would often go on 40 man raids with 20 or less (cant remember exactly). people. It made for a better run but obviously shat a lot of people...