6 New Resistance Pics (PS3)

[Pat]

Damage control?

Coming out of the Xbox 360 fanboys?

On this forum?

Oh my how things are changing

Dont you start!

[Talez]

Apparently the audio is only 1gb in total. The rest is apparently graphics data. So it's not the different languages. I think they're creating contiguous data load blocks for level loads to reduce load times. Since they have the space they might as well use it that way, especially since the bluray drive is slower when it comes loading and seek times. Of course cutting and pasting the same data over and over again isn't something you'd want to do with a 360 game, but you really don't need to because the dvd drive has better seek times and read speeds, so random access loading doesn't hurt you as much.

[lestat]

ZOMG!!1! 22GB TEXTURES!!!1!1

[Talez]

I was thinking something more mature like "But with techniques such as non parametric sampling texture synthesis the Xbox 360 doesn't need 22GB of bitmaps" but then I remembered the issue of Atomic that had the story about it has only been out for 2 and a half weeks.

[lestat]

I'm sorry talez we have seen lots of examples of 360 games that have far better texture detail than resistance fitting nicely on DVD9's. I think the explaining needs to be done on the other end as to why this game needs so much space yet looks like a 18month old pc game that would fit nicely on a dvd5.

[Talez]

I'm sorry talez we have seen lots of examples of 360 games that have far better texture detail than resistance fitting nicely on DVD9's. I think the explaining needs to be done on the other end as to why this game needs so much space yet looks like a 18month year old pc game that would fit nicely on a dvd5.

Let's see. I'm a project manager of a big game. Do I:

a) Make sure every texture is 3 times the resolution it needs to be and that polycounts are sky high to make sure fanboys on message boards who will never even touch the system we're targeting can't whine and moan or

b) Tell the artist to put maybe 10 minutes into generating the shitty, irrelevant texture that only the most petty fanboys will notice in order to devote the hours that would have been spent making that railing pretty to modeling, texturing and animating the important things instead.

Nope. I gotta win that fanboy battle. Gotta be choice a. I apologise, lestat.

[lestat]

Let's see. I'm a project manager of a big game funded by Sony. Do I:

a) . Fill the disc with dummy data and try to fool fanboys into thinking that games require a full single layer of bluray space. Even though everyone else in the industry has been doing similar/better graphics that fit on dvd5-9's just fine.

Nope. I gotta win that fanboy battle. Gotta be choice a. I apologise, lestat.

Well chosen, you are teh WINNAR!!

[Talez]

Yep. You got us. We're a big evil conspiracy just trying to fluff our Blu-Ray chest.

Congratulations. You solved The Kutaragi Code.

[Pat]

I like games.

[Scullibundo]

Erm Talez, do you realise how easy it is to make textures look better? It's not a matter of asking 3D artists to go and spend ages on a texture, it's a matter of asking them to slide the poly count up on the scale and seeing how smoothly it performs.

I guess the bigger discs mean devs can get lazy when it comes to compression.

[mech]

Interesting, Blu-Ray is CLV and 360 is CAV.

So Blu-Ray is actually faster on the inner part of the disc than a 360 is, but the 360 gets faster pretty much straight away.

However, because the data density is much higher, the PS3 has to spin the disc at a much slower rate - it also gets slower the further out the laser gets. The bulk of the noise in my 360 is from the DVD drive spinning up - so hopefully this means the Blu-Ray drive will be a lot quieter.

Also interesting is that Blu-Ray 1x isn't actually fast enough to run movies (it's 36mbps, whereas movies require 54), so everything should be 2x and above.

[Talez]

Erm Talez, do you realise how easy it is to make textures look better? It's not a matter of asking 3D artists to go and spend ages on a texture, it's a matter of asking them to slide the poly count up on the scale and seeing how smoothly it performs.

It depends on what primitives were used to create the model in the first place, adding bump mapping or normal mapping takes time, having to create intricate details and nuances for higher resolution textures also takes time.

It's not just scaling up the polycount and saving the texture as a higher resolution.

[lestat]

Interesting, Blu-Ray is CLV and 360 is CAV.

So Blu-Ray is actually faster on the inner part of the disc than a 360 is, but the 360 gets faster pretty much straight away.

Basically 2xBR CLV = 12xDVD minimum read speeds. 12xDVD at max read speed, outermost edge is equivelent to 4xBR CLV.

However, because the data density is much higher, the PS3 has to spin the disc at a much slower rate - it also gets slower the further out the laser gets. The bulk of the noise in my 360 is from the DVD drive spinning up - so hopefully this means the Blu-Ray drive will be a lot quieter.

I think the max theorectical speed of a BR disc is 12x vs 16x of DVD. So at 1x rate it spins a litter bit faster than dvd, but yes the BR-ROM drive is going to be a lot quieter than the 360, big difference in rotational speed(RPM) of the disc.

Also interesting is that Blu-Ray 1x isn't actually fast enough to run movies (it's 36mbps, whereas movies require 54), so everything should be 2x and above.

Yep BR-ROM movie players are actually 1.5x speed drives.

[Ambrose Burnside]

QUIETER THAN A SLIMLINE PS2!!!!

[Scullibundo]

Erm Talez, do you realise how easy it is to make textures look better? It's not a matter of asking 3D artists to go and spend ages on a texture, it's a matter of asking them to slide the poly count up on the scale and seeing how smoothly it performs.

It depends on what primitives were used to create the model in the first place, adding bump mapping or normal mapping takes time, having to create intricate details and nuances for higher resolution textures also takes time.

It's not just scaling up the polycount and saving the texture as a higher resolution.

Normal mapping yes, bump mapping no. Changing the complexity and resolution on a pump map honestly takes no time at all.

[mech]

Interesting, Blu-Ray is CLV and 360 is CAV.

So Blu-Ray is actually faster on the inner part of the disc than a 360 is, but the 360 gets faster pretty much straight away.

Basically 2xBR CLV = 12xDVD minimum read speeds. 12xDVD at max read speed, outermost edge is equivelent to 4xBR CLV.

However, because the data density is much higher, the PS3 has to spin the disc at a much slower rate - it also gets slower the further out the laser gets. The bulk of the noise in my 360 is from the DVD drive spinning up - so hopefully this means the Blu-Ray drive will be a lot quieter.

I think the max theorectical speed of a BR disc is 12x vs 16x of DVD. So at 1x rate it spins a litter bit faster than dvd, but yes the BR-ROM drive is going to be a lot quieter than the 360, big difference in rotational speed(RPM) of the disc.

Also interesting is that Blu-Ray 1x isn't actually fast enough to run movies (it's 36mbps, whereas movies require 54), so everything should be 2x and above.

Yep BR-ROM movie players are actually 1.5x speed drives.

Hmm, perhaps the Xbox DVD isn't as fast as everyone thought...

A 12x CAV drive like the one in the 360 will be 12x speed for around 15% of the outer disc, that figure is peak performance. The closer to the inner ring it gets the slower accesses get (5x speed on the inner ring) - probable average: around 8x speed. Another interesting thing seems to escape everyone is that the 12x DVD drive in the 360 only reads dual layer discs at a maximum of 8x speed. As it was in single layer, the 8x speed is peak performance. The 2x speed BD drive performs quite well in this case: a BD25 on PS3 fares better than a DVD9 on the 360. The great majority of 360 games are and will be pressed on DVD9s. Another interesting point with existing CLV BD drives is that they do not have the dual layer penalization with DVD dics. If a BD drive is rated to read DVDs at 8x, it will read dual layer DVDs at 8x as well. This is why Sony is comfortable with its choice and knows it will hold its own against MS's choice in the DVD format.

Caching thankfully minimizes either DVD or BD's shortcomings, and careful authoring on either format will help minimize speed issues. These technicalities shouldn't matter to a true gamer and any advantages in either format will in all likelyhood go unnoticed in any regard to the untrained.

[mech]

Bump - lestat? thoughts?