Madden 07 delayed

Candy Arse · Post by **Candy Arse** » 29 Aug 2006 10:24 pm

Great so I suppose Virtua Fighter 4 is no different from Barbarian on C64 since you attack your opponent with the purpose of winning!

Gran Turismo shows no progress from Hard Drivin' since all you do is drive a car from point A to point B!

The demo longevity is shit. But so are you for not even being able to press pause and have a read of the what's new menu (or whatever words they use) which goes into detail some main changes from the 2006 version which was identical to Madden 93. I think.

Peppermint Lounge · Post by **Peppermint Lounge** » 29 Aug 2006 10:31 pm

Madden shot looking far more next gen to me than primitive DOA4.

Candy Arse · Post by **Candy Arse** » 29 Aug 2006 10:39 pm

GreyWizzard · Post by **GreyWizzard** » 29 Aug 2006 10:44 pm

As I said, the game is probably much deeper then what I have played, but I have not been able to see that in the demo.

To be fair most games don't change too much.

Virtua Fighter, we have been given better graphics, more realistic move routine, more characters, larger environments. But esentially it is the same game each gen.

Gran Turismo has offered better graphics, and better physics with each gen. But the core is the same. Get license, earn cars.

I assume that the NFL games have offered that too.

The reason I downloaded the game was to see why people like you make such a big deal out of it. You proclaim it to be game of the year ever year. So I thought I would be fair and see what the supposed game of the year is like. What I played wasn't very exciting. I had a look through what menus there were to get the hand of the game. I don't play a lot of NFL games, or if I do, for very long, and I don't watch the sport. I have tried but I find it very slow and too broken up. I say this because it means my knowledge of the game isn't going to be as great as yours. So from the very short demo, the impression I was given was that it didn't feel anymore advanced then previous titles, and visually, to me, it wasn't that exciting.

As I have continually stated it is up to the demo to impress and make me want to buy the game. It hasn't done that. Maybe if I sat down with the full game and manual I would get a better impression. Or maybe if I sat down and played it with a madden fan, I would find their love of the game to be infectious and make me want to play it more. Unfortunately, what I am talking about is the sub par demo that has been given to us. Like I said, if you don't normally play these games, or don't follow the sport, then you probably aren't going to buy the game based solely on this demo.

Candy Arse · Post by **Candy Arse** » 30 Aug 2006 12:26 am

Candy Arse wrote:I voted for RE4 last year.

You're really struggling in this thread.

GreyWizzard · Post by **GreyWizzard** » 30 Aug 2006 12:39 am

How am I struggling?

I'm only talking about what the demo has presented to me.

You haven't even bothered to defend it. You talk about other games, while not even bothering to talk about Madden. So far, I seem to be in the better position.

Okay, my question to you is, do you think the demo given to us is a good representation of the full game?

Yes or no.

Madmya · Post by **Madmya** » 30 Aug 2006 12:40 am

DOA4 looks way better from those shots

Sonic Jam · Post by **Sonic Jam** » 30 Aug 2006 12:42 am

Isn't DOA4 double maddens framerate?

Madmya · Post by **Madmya** » 30 Aug 2006 12:44 am

snappage!

t0mby · Post by **t0mby** » 30 Aug 2006 05:01 am

GreyWizzard wrote:Boring, doesn't feel any different from previous versions... last time I played a madden game was on the megadrive

SO ITS GOT PASSING WINDWOS THEN!!!

Candy Arse · Post by **Candy Arse** » 30 Aug 2006 06:35 am

GreyWizzard wrote:How am I struggling?

I'm only talking about what the demo has presented to me.

You haven't even bothered to defend it. You talk about other games, while not even bothering to talk about Madden. So far, I seem to be in the better position.

Okay, my question to you is, do you think the demo given to us is a good representation of the full game?

Yes or no.

Here's why you're struggling -

1. You're asking me if the demo is a good representation of the full game. I've already said in this thread

The demo longevity is shit.

In the marketplace thread I said

The demo doesn't go for long enough.

and

Yeah it's a shit demo as one minute quarters are ludicrously short (I play 12 minute quarters)

All of which may strongly hint at the fact that I think it's a shit demo and may also explain why I'm not defending it. I'll say it again. It's a shit demo. It's Madden, but not even I can come close to getting a bead on how the game plays with it being that short and I play the games religiously. A practice mode demo would have been far more useful. My posessions of the ball in the full game often go for much longer than that demo.

There's the GOTY thing. I'll say it again even though I already said it in this thread - I voted for RE4 as GOTY in 2005.

Then we have the comment about it playing the same as previous versions even though you haven't played the game since the 16bit days. That supplants tomby's old passing windows comment for unintentional hilarity.

Plus since according to you the game is the same as it was on MegaDrive, you should know that the demo is missing the ability to play a proper full game, the franchise mode, the practice mode and the superstar mode, all of which allow you to invest far more on-field time into the game to learn its nuances. Of course I personally never noticed any of those features in a MD Madden, but since you said they're the same they must have been there. Only I didn't notice them until the last few years.

I also need to find out what 16bit version introduced things like hit stick, truck stick and vision cone because I've only noticed them in the last two years. The lead blocker control seemed to have only popped up in 07, but again I must have missed it for the last 12 years.

You're in a horrible position, one you put yourself in because you clearly don't know what you're talking about (though graphics are subjective and I'm fine with that). The demo is shit and I can't even come close to gauging how good the game may be and I know these games virtually inside and out. When the full game comes out, then talk to me about how bad it is with regards to gameplay and being the exact same as 16bit versions because then I'll start talking serious turkey myself.

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 30 Aug 2006 06:45 am

Candy for someone who likes to slam doa4 lighting, i can't believe you are impressed by madden. The lighting is a joke, no self shadows what so ever, which for a game that uses a flat ground and single light source and a 2nd gen title. It's just a joke. Also considering this is a custom written engine for 360, where is the AA? They should be using predicated tiling for AA, the game sorely needs it.

Also where is the sweat? Where are the cloth physics? Where are the physics at all? The animations are all still precanned. Madden is the last gen game with normal mapped characters, a grass shader and at higher res.

Without healthy competition, its no wonder EA can be lazy, look at the improvements being made in bball games due to healthy competition.

Blotto · Post by **Blotto** » 30 Aug 2006 07:45 am

the sad part is Le Stat is correct.....

EA are getting lazy when it comes to little things.... without any competition they will continue to put out half finshed games.... which to a degree I think Madden is.... I still like it but then again.. all ive touched is training mode and 3 minute quarter games... (why im doing this is a long story)

I'll say one thing though... I think upon release that Candy will rip this game a new hole....

just a funny feeling ive got...

GreyWizzard · Post by **GreyWizzard** » 30 Aug 2006 09:17 am

Candy, then we are in agreeance, it is a shit demo. That is all I have ever been saying. From the limited play time the demo has given me it is hard to form any idea of what the full game will be like. But because the demo is shit it has soured the full game for me.

All I have ever been talking about is the demo and how it presents what the game could be like.

I explained (very) simply how a game of madden went down via the demo. To be honest that is how it was played in the 16 bit days too. Little has changed. Maybe there are more options then that, but hey, it was a shitty short demo.

Graphically, I found it unimpressive. Maybe the full game under night lights and with a different weather conditions the game will look better. Full sun sure looks boring as bat shit to me. Again, it is a shit demo.

The reason I have even bothered to keep posting is because you seem to fail to grasp the simplest form of an argument. My argument was that the demo was shit. From this, as we progressed in a poor argumentive form, I said that maybe the full game was better, but the demo never presented that to me. You kept wanting to say DOA doesn't look this gen. To me that is two different things. You probably could have nipped this whole thing in the bud by saying that the full game is better then the demo and why. Every now and then you got close to it by saying it was a short demo. A little further expantion on what else was there and you could have made this thread a lot less shorter.

Seraph · Post by **Seraph** » 30 Aug 2006 12:11 pm

Candy, the game has certainly progressed in areas other than visuals in the last 12 years. The problem is that the demo doesn't show that.

Yes, 07 has Franchise, practice, superstar and other modes. But the demo doesn't.
Yes, 07 has the hit stick, truck stick, cone of vision, and many other improvements. But the demo doesn't really explain any of it in any detail.
Some of the features since the MD version have been around for 10 years, but some have only been around for 1. People that haven't played the game in a while aren't going to find these things in a 1-minute quarter game, especially when the demo doesn't even tell them about it.

It's great that new features have been implemented, but many of the gameplay changes over the last few years have not been explained at all, or very well, in this demo.

The problem with the demo is that it's simply not going to achieve its purpose. The purpose, of course, is to drive sales, to new consumers or casual consumers (the guy who buys Madden once every generation, instead of every year). People like Candy Arse will buy Madden every year, so this demo isn't for them.

The demo needs to be aimed at people like GreyWizzard, people that haven't picked up an NFL title for years. People who are either new to the sport, new to the videogame version of the sport, or have not played it in a long time. Good graphics will pick up some new players, but to pick up the majority you need to sell your strengths, and this demo doesn't sell its strengths.

Grey came away from the demo saying "this is no different from the MD version". Many others will fail to note the changes too, simply because the changes made to the modes of play (career, franchise, superstar) aren't apparent in the demo, and the changes to the gameplay (hit stick, etc.) are poorly explained, if explained at all.

Pat · Post by **Pat** » 30 Aug 2006 12:27 pm

I almost like the demo.

Madmya · Post by **Madmya** » 30 Aug 2006 01:35 pm

Candy, Madden sucks.

Candy Arse · Post by **Candy Arse** » 30 Aug 2006 07:16 pm

lestat wrote:Candy for someone who likes to slam doa4 lighting, i can't believe you are impressed by madden. The lighting is a joke, no self shadows what so ever, which for a game that uses a flat ground and single light source and a 2nd gen title. It's just a joke. Also considering this is a custom written engine for 360, where is the AA? They should be using predicated tiling for AA, the game sorely needs it.

Also where is the sweat? Where are the cloth physics? Where are the physics at all? The animations are all still precanned. Madden is the last gen game with normal mapped characters, a grass shader and at higher res.

Without healthy competition, its no wonder EA can be lazy, look at the improvements being made in bball games due to healthy competition.

Even with competition EA never pushed the visual boundaries with Madden. Gameday looked better. QB Club on 64 looked better. NFL2K looked better year in and year out.

What competition forced them to do was improve the gameplay, which (at least up to and including 06 on Xbox) came on in leaps and bounds. I'd love to see extra graphical touches on 360, starting with 60fps, but of most importance to me is that they get the gameplay right first and foremost. NFL2K5 is a perfect example of what happens when you put more effort into your graphics and presentation than gameplay. Million dollar looks, five cent gameplay. I don't want that. Ideally I want million dollar everything, but gameplay > graphics for this.

You probably could have nipped this whole thing in the bud by saying that the full game is better then the demo and why.

Why would I say that when I haven't even played the full game? For all I know it could play like ratshit. I'm waiting to find out. I can't tell much either way from the demo. And even then the long-term value of the full game will depend on the quality of gameplay that can be wrangled from AI slider adjustments.

The reason I have even bothered to keep posting is because you seem to fail to grasp the simplest form of an argument. My argument was that the demo was shit.

I have no problem agreeing that it's a shit demo since I said as much myself, but comments like these -

Boring, doesn't feel any different from previous versions... last time I played a madden game was on the megadrive

are what I find pretty silly. I mean aside from the colossal contradiction in it not feeling any different to previous versions despite you not playing one in what surely must be a decade at least. 16bit Maddens were far more slippery in how the players ran on the field. Players didn't leap for catches, interceptions or batdowns back then. I'm using these as examples because they're obvious differences that surely even a casual could spot - controls and animation. I won't bother going into nuances you could pick up from the demo because I know you're not a fan of the sport.

It really should have been an unlimited practice mode demo. Far more useful for gamers of all types to learn a bit about the game. Or maybe a full game with 5 minute quarters? It's not like they're giving away the entire game for free.

GreyWizzard · Post by **GreyWizzard** » 30 Aug 2006 09:14 pm

Candy Arse wrote: It really should have been an unlimited practice mode demo. Far more useful for gamers of all types to learn a bit about the game. Or maybe a full game with 5 minute quarters? It's not like they're giving away the entire game for free.

I completely agree with that, I would have preferred something that taught me the game or yes, a full game with 5 min quarters. You should work for EA Candy.

Candy Arse · Post by **Candy Arse** » 30 Aug 2006 09:22 pm

I'd only be interested in working on the Madden team, but I would think that the suggestions I'd have for the game would lead to me getting the punt because it would involve too much work.

I too want my 700MB back for that demo. Between that, NCAA07 and Just Cause I've tossed over 2 gig down the can.

Pat · Post by **Pat** » 30 Aug 2006 09:33 pm

Based on the demo I'm not getting Madden 07 anymore.

Reka · Post by **Reka** » 31 Aug 2006 09:34 am

I'd been warned that it was 'buggy', but figured I could endure glitches and enjoy Hall of Fame mode regardless. So I picked up Madden 07 for the pov boX and fired it up last night.

To start with I played an exhibition game - to be honest it felt just like Madden 06, perhaps a little smoother and with slightly better tackling physics (or maybe it was exactly the same and my recent experiences with Rugby Leage 2 just made it seem all that much better).

So then I created my HOF Running Back ('Got Game') and started HOF mode. Let's just say that the mode itself seems pretty awesome - I really enjoyed it. What really struck me though, was that in the 3 games I played, there were 10 safeties. Now, if they were regular safeties I wouldn't be so concerned (as unrealistic as this is). But basically, all 10 of them came from the QB trying to throw a long pass from his own half and the ball going in excactly the opposite direction that the pass was intended and back through his own end zone for a safety. This happened about 15 times in 3 games, with 10 of them ending in safeties (and the rest ending in either massive losses or turning the ball over - the computer counts this play as a fumble).

While I love the game, this 'bug' is a little too outcome-altering to overlook. After thinking about it, each of these instances came during 'accelerated play' which is when my player isn't actually on the field. I might turn that off tonight and see if this makes any difference.....

Overall, great game, HOF is an awesome mode, too bad about the debilitating 'bug'.

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 01 Sep 2006 09:35 am

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6156916.ht" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ws;title;1

If Electronic Arts' estimation of the sales success of Madden NFL 07 is accurate, this year's game could be headed to the Hall of Fame in no time. The publisher believes that more than two million copies of the game have been sold across all platforms in just its first week of release.

This year's first-week sales are up 12 percent over Madden NFL 06's 1.8 million units sold over the same period last year, says EA. Though the franchise has always performed well in retail during its 17-year career, EA's estimation makes Madden NFL 07 the best-selling game in the franchise's history of first-week performance.

Earlier today, Microsoft claimed that the Xbox 360 version had logged more than 2 million hours of online play over Xbox Live--the equivalent of 228 years in just one week.

Candy Arse · Post by **Candy Arse** » 01 Sep 2006 06:27 pm

Fuck Reka I didn't know that bug was in the Xbox version. I only read about it being on PS2. How the fuck does this shit get through QA?

Reka · Post by **Reka** » 02 Sep 2006 02:36 am

I dunno Candy, but after playing HOF in 'regular mode' (ie I control every play and it's not sped up) it didn't happen at all - seems it's only a bug in the sped up mode.....
....which really sucks - I was hoping to just play my guy and let everything else be untainted (by my brilliance\crapiness).

Urgh.

Could be a strong case to use the EB 7 day hire and get a 360 + Madden pack next week.....