Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

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Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

Post by Froggy »

So.. after a shit show of a day trying to get a Xbox version of Like a Dragon physically in store or online delivered and it's nowhere but some random shop on catch for 99.95 plus delivery. I'm like ok surely the Xbox store will be 109.85 max, nup 114.95 like fuck me. It's still cheaper to pay postage and wait but that's almost 30 above the PS5 physical and what it'll be when it does finally arrive on physical.

During my googling I see that as part of the layoffs apparently they cut the entire physical delivery department. I'm fine with digital but physical is my main go to because I can get a new game way cheaper and have some resale value and because the digital prices are almost always bullshit like this experience I've just had. Once it's all digital all prices will rise, this experience today has shown me a digital only future will hurt my wallet bigly.

I'm wondering if they've also gone too early again, physical still makes a huge % of sales, I'd say since the pandemic recovery its back to the majority on all console platforms, so now they lose shelf space etc to competitors, it only hurts them. My one hope is they outsource it, competition is good so it hurts on both a platform and overall consumer front.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

Post by unfnknblvbl »

I've not heard that, but it doesn't surprise me. What with the Series X reviosion supposedly lacking a disc drive. It's a 'great' way for them to try to get more money out of us for things we already own.
Plus there's the rumour that they're closing off the XBox hardware division altogether - to gp third party. That wouldn't be good for the market at all.

It's all a part of Microsoft's good old "embrace extend extinguish" stratecgy that I feared was their tactic all along. It was good while it lasted, I guess... :(
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

Post by Froggy »

I can't see them exiting hardware or the Xbox brand. They've wanted to go digital since 2013 though and it seems the Activision merger going through either due to the cost they need to cut it and slim down things to make it work or it's just a great time to sneak it in. I think they'll outsource a 3rd party to manage physical in the short term but I can see that reducing to special editions etc. Alan Wake 2 set the bar, the first big release I can think of that didn't even pretend they would do one and had success, kinda opens the flood gates.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

Post by Madmya »

Yeah hasn't the hardware division been a success? Surface has come a long way since the days of the OG surface, can't imagine they'd have someone else build their xbox.

This will be an unpopular opinion but I'm all for it. I don't think we have the right to re-sell games we buy these days. To me it seems ridiculous to pay $100 for the masterpiece that is Alan Wake 2, then once I'm done playing it multiple times with hours and hours of entertainment, I expect to get money back from it by selling it to someone else on the cheap. Especially when it's able to be digitally distributed. I just think it's an outdated system and it needs to go, it's not fair on the developers.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

Post by unfnknblvbl »

That's a very unpopular opinion. Why don't we have the right to sell stuff we've bought? That's one hell of a slippery slope right there.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

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Aye, we're in the digital age. I'd be charging triple for a physical product.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

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Madmya wrote: 28 Jan 2024 03:31 pmThis will be an unpopular opinion but I'm all for it. I don't think we have the right to re-sell games we buy these days. To me it seems ridiculous to pay $100 for the masterpiece that is Alan Wake 2, then once I'm done playing it multiple times with hours and hours of entertainment, I expect to get money back from it by selling it to someone else on the cheap. Especially when it's able to be digitally distributed. I just think it's an outdated system and it needs to go, it's not fair on the developers.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

Post by Madmya »

Well shit, I'll sure change my mind with that rebuttal.

I'll ask you this, Ambrose: you play any particular game for weeks/months/years and then sell it to a second person, who now also plays the same game without any depreciation to its quality for weeks/months/years, who then sells it on again. Why do you think it's fair for three people to get full entertainment from the product but for only person to actually pay the people who developed the game?
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

Post by unfnknblvbl »

Madmya wrote: 30 Jan 2024 07:40 pm Well shit, I'll sure change my mind with that rebuttal.

I'll ask you this, Ambrose: you play any particular game for weeks/months/years and then sell it to a second person, who now also plays the same game without any depreciation to its quality for weeks/months/years, who then sells it on again. Why do you think it's fair for three people to get full entertainment from the product but for only person to actually pay the people who developed the game?
I'll answer:

Cars. Houses. Furniture. Appliances. Guitars. Amplifiers. Pianos. Old computer/games hardware. Literally everything else. Why is software any different to everything else in my life? Why is the developer entitled to a cut of every sale in perpetuity? Should I be buying a brand new car every time, and either sending my current one to a landfill, or amassing a giant car collection? Should Toyota be getting a cut of every onsale of their cars? Have you ever seen a dead Toyota? What a revenue stream that would be! But at the complete rape of customer's rights, and the doctrine of first sale.

And let's not forget that there's a whole bunch of people out there that can't actually afford brand new AAA games all the time. Are we really that comfortable with saying "you will own nothing and be happy"?

Our society is being raped by greed enough as it is - we need to be pushing back against these encroachments, not encouraging them.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

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They're different from software because of availability and distribution, as well as the required upkeep and ongoing costs to maintain their quality. When you buy a used car, you're getting a product that isn't of the same standard as when it was first purchased. Can you say the same for a video game? In the past - yes, today - no. So with software, you can have somebody entirely consume its product and then they can pass it on without any depreciation to its quality - it's the same as brand new. With a car, a purchaser who entirely consumes the product is left with a car that no longer functions.
Why is the developer entitled to a cut of every sale in perpetuity?
Because they made it. Their job and career depends on its success. You talk about greed but honestly I just think the entitlement you have for owning someone else's work is greed.

And the whole affordability thing is rubbish anyway. The biggest financial hurdle to gaming is the hardware itself, Titanfall 2 has been $8 in sales for eons now - they'll be fine. Gaming is so cheap these days.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

Post by unfnknblvbl »

Dude. Calling the expectation to own a physical thing you paid money for "entitlement" is really rich.
Titanfall 2 has been $8 in sales for eons now - they'll be fine. Gaming is so cheap these days.
Zelda: Breath of the Wild has been $80 since the day it released, seven years ago.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

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Are you seriously making the case that gaming is not cheap these days?

You're old, you would have remembered the 90s. I remember my siblings and I pooled our money to buy Mortal Kombat on Megadrive for $150 in 1993. Let's adjust that for inflation... $333. Imagine if that happened today.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

Post by Ambrose Burnside »

Madmya wrote: 31 Jan 2024 07:25 amI just think the entitlement you have for owning someone else's work is greed.
I don't really care about changing your mind because ... Fucking hell.

You paid for it, it's yours to do what you will with it, including selling it on. You say games are some magically different thing, they're not. They're no different to books (so long as you look after them, same as games, don't scratch the disc), or a million other things.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

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They are different to books because books aren't preferentially consumed digitally. Games relying on an optical disc is archaic.

Has anyone tried selling their 360 games recently? Lots of great games that are worthless, just a massive amount of waste. Moving away from physical is far more efficient and puts money where it should go - to the people creating the games. So I guess the answer to the question I asked you Ambrose is no, you don't believe developers should get any more money - you should.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

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I guess while you were paying $150 for Street Fighter 2 on a system locked down tighter than a nun's snatch, I was sharing (lol) shareware games, games built from the ground up to be modded, knowing the source code would be released legally in a few years allowing even more freedom to do whatever you want with the games you own.

Money going where it belongs? Don't be naive, it'll go to Microsoft or EA or another big publisher, who will react the way they always have, by laying off staff and closing development studios to satisfy their stakeholders. Regardless of distribution method. Digital has been dominant for years and has changed nothing in that regard.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

Post by Ambrose Burnside »

I know we can't go back to the glorious early-mid 90s, but I would have thought owning something I buy is something pretty fundamental and it's blowing my mind you think that's selfish entitlement 🤣 What a ride.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

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:lol: I know, but get with the times dude.

/scurries off to find games to add to his Saturn collection
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

Post by Ambrose Burnside »

Spec Ops: The Line delisted from online storefronts.

I love the future.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

Post by Madmya »

Just pretend it's sold out.

Or they're not bringing it to PAL territories.

It'll help you sleep at night.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

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Madmya wrote: 01 Feb 2024 01:53 pm Just pretend it's sold out.

Or they're not bringing it to PAL territories. .
Ah sweet so I can buy it second hand or import it then? 🤦‍♂️

Guess what, on Xbox 360 you can. For dirt cheap too if your earlier comment about selling Xbox 360 games means anything. But those who have embraced the all-digital, no one owns anything dream? Too fucking bad.

Doesn't affect me personally, I already own it, but it's just bullshit, especially as people weren't given any warning beforehand.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

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Madmya wrote: 31 Jan 2024 08:43 pm Are you seriously making the case that gaming is not cheap these days?

You're old, you would have remembered the 90s. I remember my siblings and I pooled our money to buy Mortal Kombat on Megadrive for $150 in 1993. Let's adjust that for inflation... $333. Imagine if that happened today.
Update: Got my game randomly at JB which didn't even list xbox series x on it's website.. and only had one copy that wasn't shrink wrapped BUT to my original rant I got it for 15 bucks cheaper than digital.

I don't sell games, I keep them and now my kids are enjoying some of the older ones, some no longer on digital stores etc. Yeah PC gaming etc is probably cheaper these days but console is not, it's far more expensive to digitally purchase still than the corresponding physical. Physical since the pandemic ended has gone back up and is still (I believe) the majority of sales. It's never good for consumers to lose choice and both have a place, I buy digital and physical.

Now onto the argument about sales, jesus. Gaming companies are not losing out because someone can on sell a physical version of it. That's like saying you can't sell your laptop because it has Windows on it so it's not fair to Microsoft. Generally once softare is done, it's done. If they are working on bugs etc the overheads on that are small development wise or have a team doing DLC is also small so the ongoing costs are controlled and with digital stores these days, it allows sales of that title forever which they never used to have, essentially a good title can bring revenue for decades. A great example is moving titles to mobile when the devices catch up in power to run a version of a successful game, it gets ported there then brings in more cash, stuff you couldn't do in 1993. The same people buying those titles second hand aren't buying the digital version anyway probably due to the price, like second hand cars etc it's a different market and consumer. What devs and publishers have done with DLC is effectively monetise these second hand sales anyway because if the games good people will buy adds on no matter how many hands it's gone through, that's the general strategy for digital and physical these days to help lengthen the sales cycle.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

Post by unfnknblvbl »

When my 360 died about eight years ago, I saved the hard drive before junking the machine.

I bought another one a few weeks ago, and while trying to restore the games I'd originally purchased, I wasn't able to download Outrun Online Arcade. Literally one of the three games I rebought the machine to play. Something I paid for I could not download onto my 'new' machine.

Thankfully it worked fine when I dug out my old hard drive, but what a shitful experience that is. And this is the future. Nah, give me a disc or cart and let me use it in perpetuity.

If Microsoft kill off the disc drive in their next machine (and "keep" backwards compatibility), I'm out. There's no way I'm rebuying my games when I already own them and they work just fine.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

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unfnknblvbl wrote: 01 Feb 2024 03:11 pmIf Microsoft kill off the disc drive in their next machine (and "keep" backwards compatibility), I'm out. There's no way I'm rebuying my games when I already own them and they work just fine.
Me too. Will go PC only. My current PC has a disc drive and my next one will too. And consoles have nothing like GOG.com. I love being able to play old games without issue. Currently playing Heretic with GZDoom and it runs great with modern controls and resolutions. The boomer shooter revival has been my favourite recent gaming trend 😊

Annoying that good guy Microsoft championed BC, letting me whack an OG Xbox disc into my Series X no worries, only to show their true colours once again.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

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FUCK! I didn't get Spec Ops The Line! I was definitely going to get it this year, in its 13th year of sale. Devastating.

That Outrun experience is shit though, which I was going to mention as I'm sure you've talked about it before.

Also Froggy I've got no idea what you're on about with that analogy. It obviously must be beneficial if devs like Remedy are now going digital-only.
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Re: Rumour is Microsoft culled the physical division

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Madmya wrote: 01 Feb 2024 03:59 pm FUCK! I didn't get Spec Ops The Line! I was definitely going to get it this year, in its 13th year of sale. Devastating.
Wait, I thought you were pro-developer?

They're all devastated by the news.
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