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Eve Online

Post by Deef »

Oct 29th edit - If you're interested in trying Eve it's worth contacting myself or any Rancher first, because with a little working of the subscription mechanics you can get a free 51 day subscription instead of a 14 day trial. At the moment CCP are giving good perks as well, but I'm not sure how they're an incentive to people who don't even understand what they do in game. But they're good anyway (Cerebral Accelerator to the new player, free cool shuttle to the inviter).
__________________________________________________________________________


Well I've been here before. Recently an online friend suggested I try Spiral Knights. I did, but all it resulted in was me considering Eve again. So I whipped up some trial accounts for both of us and yet again find myself checking out Eve.

It has had a few significant changes since the last time I tried it, a year or two ago. Eve ages incredibly well. This thread is kind of me upselling Eve but I'm mainly here just to describe those bigger recent changes I've seen. If you don't know anything about Eve then here's a bit of a summary:

[Click to see hidden content]
In a nutshell Eve is a huge MMO with pretty spaceships and backgrounds, a torrential amount of detail, and basically no rules when you leave the safe zones. The moral code and best part of Eve is something along the lines of: if it's fun to get the better of others, do it. Once you start exploring PvP the game punishes harshly and thus allows for quite a good experience; like dropping your weapon when you die in PSO, but times a million.

The game runs on a single server, usually a good 40,000 players all online at once in the same universe, and battles with multiple hundreds of ships at once are not uncommon. The developers have said they don't want to put an artificial cap on how big the battles can be, expressing an understanding that if people want to fight with lag, it must be worth it to them. There is safe PvE in the game also, and this is really the face that the game presents to new players, but the real draw of Eve is the incredibly free and complex PvP universe running beneath it all. Alliances of guilds (corporations) control huge chunks of the game and fight over them, and this is all completely player-driven.

There really isn't an endgame apart from control the universe, and there are more ways to play the game than I know of. PvP is just one focus for a player but there are many other areas to get good at and use to make yourself rich/powerful. You could learn to exploit trade and trade routes, or PvE mission running, or exploring, or producing, or all these other things I don't really get. There's a new thing called Planetary Interaction and I don't even know what it is. Back to PvP, even that has more roles than I know. Are you the tackler, support, tank, bomber, spy, etc etc. And in any battle, when your ship blows up, your ship blows up and that's all she wrote.

And here's a nice hypey trailer from a couple of years ago:

Now to talk about those changes.

Downtime
To this forum, the most relevant change seems to be the downtime. It is now only 30 minutes. The biggest problem people had with it was the 1 hour downtime every day, which for Australia was right in the middle of prime gaming hours; around 9 or 10pm I think it was. It's still there, but half the time now. It's often shorter in fact, once lasting a whole 12 minutes.


Character creation
The character creation has had a complete overhaul. That is a biggish deal already, and the reason for it is bigger again.
You used to get a head to play with. Hair, eyes, some expressions on the face, clothing and such. You'd perfect your character head model then get to take one photo and never even see that in the game. More importantly, characters created back then were 98% the absolute fug.

Now, the character itself has to have the most detailed face and body structure I've seen in a game. You still only get one photo. Eve's character creation literally appears to be a tech demo before anything else and my machine really struggles with character creation, but the game itself runs fine. Having said that, so far the character creator is still quite simply overkill. The part of the face that is below the eyebrow but above the top eyelid; you can adjust that. Four different adjustments on the nose, three for each lip, refine that cheekbone, and just how much do you want your ears to stick out? It's a bit too much focusing on things people won't notice, while the things that other players will see easily (hair, clothing, etc) are still fairly restricted to be honest and this shows in many avatars. Nevertheless, you'll have fun with how much control you have over the human expression, especially the eyes.


Walking in Stations
The reason for these character models being so impressive now is the upcoming plans to finally allow players to walk around a space station instead of just always playing through the ship's eyes.
So far only private Captain's Quarters are available; no public interaction in avatar form yet but the foundations are done. The 3 screens in your quarters are pretty cool and for the first time you can properly see and control your character, like ever, in Eve. You can put your own videos on those screens in your CQ as well; there's a guide on the Eve site. It looks very cool but is completely pointless since only you can see it. But it's a nice addition - dock up after a harsh battle and the porn is already running on your big holographic screen. Or My Little Pony, whatever.

Part of the Walk in Stations/Captain's Quarters release was the Nex Store, where you can buy clothing and such. To Eve in general this is a big deal and the items are stupidly pricey in real and game currency. But it's still early and this stuff is not of any significant importance in the game yet.


Stats
This isn't a huge change but I'll put it here anyway. All the complexity of attribute balancing has been completely removed from character creation. No matter which bloodline, career and history you choose, they all mean nothing now and every new player is able to assign attribute points manually as they see fit. This means that there are now only 4 races that affect your game and the rest is only aesthetics.
Personally I'm not a fan of this change.


Incursions
I had no idea this existed when I originally wrote this post, despite the expansion being called "Incursion" at the time. These are basically big NPC invasions randomly happening around the galaxy. I won't go into it because I still don't know much about it but it's pretty cool when it happens just to see the threat level in your system and to note the effects the invasion has on some attributes. From what I've read it seems the introduction of Incursions went down very well with the community.
Edit - This absolutely kicked mine and Pepp's arses one night. We lost the equivalent of multiple hundreds of Rifters in one sudden, epic, double you tee eff.


Misc
Some other miscellaneous, significant changes are:
· Incarna totally revamped turret graphics and they're pretty sweet.
· Agent quality levels were completely removed. The whole mission system has been nicely simplified.
· The learning skills were axed. I totally approve, because they were nothing but a numbers game which meant nothing if removed for everyone.
· The game has an entirely new area of play call Planetary Interaction. No idea what that is, but it looks interesting because you actually mess around with things that are on the planet surface.


It doesn't matter who you start with except for character aesthetics and roleplay. All characters can train all things and apart from a very short-lived edge in the chosen race's frigates, all characters start with the same skills. So look at all the models at the start of character creation to get a rough idea of the aesthetics your avatar will have, and consider your roleplay interests if any, and choose from there.

No, you don't have to do mining, ever. What you can do is steal from the miners though. I don't know why they do bother mining, but try it. Try anything that means you could get your ship caught in a fight. Heart pumping and that's no exaggeration. It's what Eve does best; makes you stress the hell out when your ship is in danger, like no other game does.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (3 pound sale on also)

Post by Burnzoire »

My subs is on hold. No time for eve these days.
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My annual thread about Eve Online (3 pound sale on also)

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

Eve certainly sounds no less fascinating with this excellent update post. I'm very interested to try it.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (3 pound sale on also)

Post by Twiztid Elf »

Deef wrote:Downtime
To this forum, the most relevant change seems to be the downtime. The biggest problem people had with it was the 1 hour downtime every day, which for Australia was right in the middle of prime gaming hours; around 9 or 10pm I think it was. It looks like that is now only 30 minutes each day.
BAM!
Absolute deal breaker for me. Otherwise I'd be playing.

I don't understand the timezone choice either. If they made it 2-3 hours later, instead of killing Australia East Coast, they'd be in a quieter timezone (sorry Perth). China has their own Eve universe with a seperate downtime.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (3 pound sale on also)

Post by Burnzoire »

Downtime is more of a blessing than a curse. I'd never get anything done in RL without it, plus us aussies get nice quiet times when people are logging in/out to get that expensive ship past a pirate gate camp :)

Now that it's just 30 mins it's pretty much a non issue. Besides, they're working towards on eliminating DT altogether. The reduction to 30 mins being the first step.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (3 pound sale on also)

Post by Deef »

I think it being only 30 minutes does really reduce the problem but I also see it being an annoyance still. Great point about being able to use it though.. it's like a little perk you have available every night for PvPers. I never really thought of that.

Eliminating downtime altogether though? Heck I'm happy for it to stay if it helps them keep the server stable.

Completely know what you mean about putting your subscription on hold though. Eve has held my interest more than any game, longer than any game, in a long time but the awareness of how big a game it is was really keeping me held back. But 5€ for 50 days is cheap as bro. I hope that by that time I will finally, after years, know whether I want to keep going with it.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

I've opened an account. Looking forward to trying it out.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Ambrose Burnside »

I just watched the trailer in the OP. It looks like the perfect game.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Deef »

Cool Pepp.. did you pull all the tricks for the 51 days or just jump into a trial?
What's your full name in game? I'm Dan Estrellas Amigo. If you're Minmitar we should be nearby. Hope you didn't pick Amarr and in case you fall for it by mistake, no you don't have to do mining, avoid it hard. A few tips since you just rolled:

1. You should know that the only thing that made a difference in character creation was which of the 4 races you chose. Everything else you selected was purely aesthetics.

2. The difference between the 4 races is based on their ships, and this is only because the race you chose set the line of ships you started with. The general description of the 4 races is:
Caldari ships = missiles + shields. Long range, missiles make Caldari easy and fun to start the game with. Rather star contemporary spaceship designs.
Amarr ships = lasers + armour. Lasers never run out of ammo and only lasers allow you to realistically switch ammo mid-battle. Good looking ships.
Gallente ships = drones + hybrid weapons. I don't know much about Gallente, but they also have very cool curvy looking ships, and drones are fun.
Minmitar ships = speed + artillery weapons. Junky looking ships but favoured by many. Versatile around armour, shield, or "speed tanking". The Minmatar Rifter is the unquestioned best Tech 1 Frig in the game.

3. Even if you want to use the ships of another race, it doesn't matter what race you started with. You still can train to do anything that any character can ever do and the difference in training is only about 1 play session.


You perhaps ran into the new half patch being applied; Eve has been down for several hours today. I'm only just updating now. It's not a bad time to start Eve as they really have removed chunks of (imo) over-complexity lately. Agent standings is something you'll never have to screw around with, and it's now impossible that you made a character with a bad attribute layout. The tutorials are more involved with starting quests now, and they have added a much, much clearer set of beginner quests since last time I tried. A bunch of skills were axed, including the skill at learning skills. The Eve forums see a fair bit of complaining about the game being dumbed down, but that's just what they're used to I think. I am happy to see CCP really taking a knife to some parts of the game that only seemed complicated for the sake of being complicated and the game is already notorious for having a learning cliff-face. If there's one game that can handle a reduction of the distance between noob and pro, it's Eve.

Speaking of, don't let the initial questing put you off. The game isn't about these quests you'll be starting with. They're basically the way for people to get into the game before other people start killing them from every direction, while giving your wallet and skills list a decent foundation before the more involved game begins. Later on, you can continue questing for the big loots if you want, but a lot of people don't bother with them if they get into the PvP side of things.

Here is me btw. I put a lot of time into making a guy that looks... like a pretty normal guy.

Image
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My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

Thanks Deef. Have not rolled a character yet, only bought client and set up main account. Bought through Steam and 6gb is coming down at the moment. I anticipate more updates when I start.

Minmatar was the race I was leaning toward btw. Will update once I've got my character sorted.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by pilonv1 »

I might have to give it a go for $5.

Been getting the MMO itch of late and saw Rift was on sale for $30 on Steam this weekend. Would rather try something new.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

Downloading the 780mb update is taking longer than the 6gb client. Another hour or so to go.

Was on my phone this morning so just saw your char now, Deef. Looks great. Mine will be a female and she will be far from normal looking. Will post her up when I'm done.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Deef »

The character creation can literally waste hours, so just remember everything that's not set in bone can be changed later.

Tattoos, etc can all be adjusted, and you can make more photos later whenever you want. I assume most other things too but I haven't checked it all. I just know that things like bone structure are fixed. You can move eyebrows for example, but you can't move where the eyebrows sit.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Burnzoire »

Image
I was going for the Bladerunner Rutger Hauer look :P
Had this char since Jan 2004. Will get back into eve again one day.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

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Well she ended up being pretty normal looking. She has some undercut and asymmetry going on with her hair you can't see and she's seriously skinny-muscular. She came off looking quite normal in her portraits as you can see. Not quite as many custom options as I was expecting esp in the clothing department but what clothing is there can be coordinated well and looks great. Face and body config options are insane although I would've liked to have made her taller, not that I know how tall she is.

I was down to Minmatar vs Gellente for race. Ended up liking Minmatar Sebiestor best and chose a Republic + military school background. I like the way each choice, with the exception of perhaps Caldari, don't pander to everything that's desirable. Each option seems far from perfect. I seriously dislike those Amarr god-boys already (they are my new Paladin).

Image

Well I expect a lot to learn and am looking forward to it. I was done at around 4am last night and was immediately confused by what the tutorial was telling me to do so I left it and am about to start now.

I also have a crush on the Eve voice-over girl.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

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Warp Drive Active. She's hawt isnt' she :)
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Deef »

Damn, they're both really good avatars.

In case you aren't aware yet Pepp, having an alt in Eve is a waste for the most part. Skill training only functions on 1 character at a time and any older character can learn the skills that an alt would, with negligible differences in time taken. There are some uses to advanced players for having an alt, mainly to do with security status and trading I believe, but unlike other MORPGs the idea of training different characters to play different roles based on their abilities is pure redundancy in Eve. Your first character can learn those roles exactly the same. So get used to your hot chick avatar.

You can use Eve Gate to access character info and image from a browser. https://gate.eveonline.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , where you log on with your Eve account.

I added you btw.

_______________


I too was unimpressed by how much you can tweak things up close while there is so little variation in the stuff that people will be looking at from down the hall. However, all the fashion-related stuff is content that will unsurprisingly be added to over time, via the Incarna/"walking in stations" extension. Nothing groundbreaking but it will be good to see some character being added to Eve. It has always been really absurd that the character you create is visible 0.01% of the time.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Incarna" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Game Design

The expansion is initially going to be relatively bare-bones, due to the nature of the challenges of creating the technology and creating game play that does not encroach on the methods people play Eve Online today.

A Tactical Map is a major feature being planned for the expansion.

"Through the course of our work on Ambulation, we’ve come to realize the potential a Tactical Map could have when it comes to things like war planning, logistics and complex fleet movements. The Tactical Map would be a 3D holographic image of the universe. The difference between the Tactical Map and the F10 map is that the Tactical Map would allow interaction of multiple people simultaneously - with the expected moderator privileges, obviously. It's a collaborative tool, meant to aid corporations and alliances in dealing with the complexities inherent in tactically coordinating large numbers of people."

On release, the primary content will be the ability to run shops inside of stations, ranging from Plastic Surgeons to Fashion Outlets. Players will also be able to set up corporate offices where they can hold meetings and introduce recruits. Player scripted NPCs will deliver dialogue to people looking for information.

Mini Games are an expected feature of the Walking in Stations expansion, with a thread on the Eve Online forums taking player suggestions for games to include. Gambling is one of the primary functions that is planned for inclusion, with the ability to place anything from ISK to Ships in a wager.

Custom, player made clothing is another major feature. It will be possible for anyone to have a custom made uniform or outfit, but to prevent "visual griefing," the color palette is being kept subdued and realistic. CCP has also hired fashion designers to aid in the development of clothing and fabrics within the Walking in Stations expansion.
The palette doesn't want to get any plainer imo. That is one downer from the old character creation; it was a tad more colourful. Hopefully the plastic surgery options will allow people to get a bit more crazy with their characters, knowing (finally) that they aren't set-in-stone for your entire Eve lifespan. Otherwise all we'll keep seeing are good looking normal characters heh. I agree about the height too... it's a bit strange that you can't tweak height even a bit.

I read somewhere that this is about 4 weeks away, but now I'm not so sure.

_______________


That female voice-over, Aura, is excellent I agree. Roboticised female voice-over is such a cliché but Eve nails it. It is really sad though, because Aura used to voice so much more. The entire tutorial for one; I think actually all the tutorials. (Yeah when you say you had trouble with the tutorial, that's just the first one.) I only realised and asked about this removal last night. People said that a comeback was in the works, but no real information.
I found this example; this is what used to be normal in earlier trials I played:
Seriously, why did they remove so much of that. The voice is excellent.

_______________


I am now done with solo missions and looking into actual PvP now. It's scary to enter because it means losing ships and all your gear, every time. :S
I'll report back with hopefully some tips on how to make the transition more easily, because it's one thing I've had trouble with every time I've trialed.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

Aura's popped up in a few start up sections. The game opening, race descriptions and of course in-game. A shame we don't hear more as per above though.

Been enjoying the game today after a slog early on. Just a real fumble, tutorial step-by-step descriptions not matching what they're explaining, lots of menus, lots of destinations that are the same name with a roman numeral at the end.

Getting slowly up to speed now and it's a pretty gorgeous experience. I've just got a desirable ship and am in the process of learning how to fly it. The skills system is great in that my character is learning to use them right now. It may be involved but at least progress is ongoing whether you're in-game or not.

A better pic of my character portrait.

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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Deef »

Is it the Rifter you got? I'm still in mine, only my 2nd as well. My first got exploded by a bad decision on my part when a mate said he'll save me. I spent about... 4 seconds... considering that and then it was too late. On that note, a tip for not dying is this:

Select any star system other than the one you're in, set it as destination and just leave it set. Then in the fight if you're getting hammered too much, just whack Ctrl-S and autopilot will engage and warp you out to the corresponding stargate. Once you arrive just turn off autopilot. This method simply is a little faster than going through the context menus, especially if you mouse something wrong.

The bigger ships become real monster to warp out of a fight because they turn so slowly to align. So slowly that eventually you have to align your ship first, fight second, and not turn the ship. The speed difference as you get into tougher ships is very noticeable and can be amusing when you're sharing missions; it's a perk of using the little frigates.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

The Rifter, yes. While my training to pilot it is in progress I'll knock off the non-combat missions. I hope to get some skills from those missions that suit my character - engineering, electronics, etc.

Thanks for the escape plan hint. For now I've been leaving my people & places + contacts tab minimised which lists encounter and destination addresses. If I get into trouble I open it and warp to my space station. Worked well when I was getting flogged by some abandoned resort station.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

Rifter is very good.

Doing the exploration tutorial missions now and am up to finding a hidden Gravimetric signature. Damn if that isn't hard to do. I can find it but I need to zero in 100% in order to warp to it. Best I can do with 4 probes is 60% for now.
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Deef »

You remembered Youtube right? That has to be the dumbest thing I've encountered so far... no explanation of how scanning works. It makes sense once you know it, but seriously did I miss a 2 page guide in there somewhere? Once you know how it works it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes for even a tricky scan. More like 3 minutes usually.

Speaking of, I found out how to use the Directional Scanner (yeah, another kind of scanning) for finding other ships in your star system. In other words, for hunting people down. There are at least 3 different ways to hunt for people by scanning and the method I've learnt is the quick and dirty one. It's simple in concept and you don't have tto train any skills for it since it's another one of those built in scanners every ship has. Being the simplest way to hunt people it is unsurprisingly the easiest for people to hide from, but it's perfect for beginner PvP. If someone you're hunting is able to evade this simple directional scanning then you really don't want to try your luck at fighting them.

There really is a lot to take in before even starting PvP. Security status is another thing that takes a bit of time to understand. I'm just trying to cover all the bases that are simply about knowledge before I jump in, so that I'll at least be throwing less ships away. I am pretty sure there are 3 ways (maybe more but I think 3) to engage in a battle without the game's "police" swooping in and pwning you, and then the 1 way that is true instill-a-sudden-sense-of-dread-into-your-victim PvP. This 4th way involves everything from avoiding police for 15 minutes (and thus being trapped in a star system while your victims mates are surely on their way with your blood in their eyes), to brute forcing your way through the police attacks in bigger ships, to having absolutely no chance of surviving Conchord's (the super police) vengeance no matter what you're flying. It's the 4th way that is naturally the most fun hehe. I look forward to the day where I not only destroy a ship 10x the cost of mine, but threaten the pilot enough to actually get him to eject and let me fly off in it! Oh the burnnnn. From what I hear, a good PvP frigate like the Rifter can indeed take down cruisers, which are basically 2 tiers higher.

I know it's a bit of a dream but being able to ransom someone's cruiser off them, before I can even afford a cruiser... that would be sweet. Unlikely though. First targets will be rightfully paranoid mining players. Lol then the idea of having to hide for 15 minutes in this huge lug of a mining ship, paranoid yourself.. FUN.

But yes, a lot to learn. Once I get a handle on more of the steps involved, I'll write a kind of real noob's guide to PvP because really I haven't seen any that explain all the steps required to get into it.
Still
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Burnzoire
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Burnzoire »

aww you guys are making me miss eve :(
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

Deef wrote:You remembered Youtube right?
Well two things on that. Firstly, yes, I checked YouTube after a couple more hours of flailing about with my probes + the useless in-game tutorial and happened across the excellent scanning tutorial pasted below. The video explains how to use scanning, the in-game tutorial does not. I am now a CCP Games channel subscriber.

Secondly, is the girl voicing the video Aura???
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Deef
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Re: My annual thread about Eve Online (£3 sale on also)

Post by Deef »

That's the same video I was recommended heh. I doubt it's Aura because scanning was added years after the game was made.

By the way, when moving the probes, don't drag them by their centre (you know, the method that let's you drag in any direction). Only use the arrows to drag along one preset axis at a time. Why? Because when you drag by the centre you're moving the probe across the plane that you randomly defined with your camera position and it quickly becomes a mess of perspective-based mistakes.

I just don't know how the game expects you to know how to use scanning probes... -_-

I had a look at Planetary Interaction last night. Well, more that I was within range of a planet and suddenly found an option to enter "planet mode" or something. I didn't know what I was doing, but it looked cool. The planet textures themselves are one of the things they revamped in the recent year or two.


Still trying to learn enough about PvP to start. I've found a couple of good guides, one for PvP, one for Rifter solo PvP only. I'm pouring through them trying to extract the most useful stuff.

I almost fell for a noob-mistake last night, practising on a can. Yes lol, orbiting my own cargo can, scrambling, webbing and NOSing it just to watch how my capacitor would go with the afterburner still on. Some mofo in a frigate looted the 1 bullet I had put in it which mean I had agro on him and was free to shoot. But this time hesitation was my friend and with a bit of chatter and learning I realised he had been playing for 4 years, so he knew what he was doing and just wanted me to shoot first so he could pwn me without ruffling Conchord's feathers.

It was so tempting though, because I did happen to have my complete PvP setup fitted, waiting for practise. It would have been a good first try. Maybe he assumed I was a noob, but didn't assume I was a noob with a warp jammer, armour tank, nos and webber fitted and waiting. Now I'll never know... it would have been a sweet victory...


Then I wasn't allowed to dock because of my acts of agression against my own inanimate cargo. -_-

This Rifter solo PvP guide is pretty good; huge but not a lot of bloat. It certainly doesn't make things feel easier though..
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/wens" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... lo_PvP.pdf
Still
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