Sony sez: IR is dead... Long live Bluetooth!

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 11 Oct 2006 02:55 pm

Ars confirms it, PS3 remote is Bluetooth only.

Along with dragging movies into the 21st century we might be able to say goodbye to universal remotes that have to specifically support hundreds of IR codes and replace it with a single Bluetooth remote that just fucking works. However, expect a painful 5-10 year transition period before this happens.

Also, expect Logitech to have a hybrid IR/BT remote out in a week that's three times as expensive as every other remote on the market.

mech · Post by **mech** » 11 Oct 2006 03:04 pm

Fuck you very much Sony.

I mean it's awesome for people w/o universal remotes, but fucked for those of us with them

Edit: oh and logitech already has a hybrid wi-fi/IR remote, nice that Sony has used completely different technology again so you can't even use that.

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 11 Oct 2006 03:10 pm

It would be interesting to see if the bluetooth profile it's using is an open one. In other controller related news, i'm told that the controller doesn't have a replaceable battery. It's internal ala ipod style. Which means once the lithium ion battery dies(2-3yr life), the controller is virtually useless. Also the convenience of having a precharged battery ready to swap in is lost.

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 11 Oct 2006 03:21 pm

I would expect it to be an open one since there is already a HID remote control profile built into the Bluetooth standard. I can already control my mac from my mobile phone without any additional software.

And mech, Bluetooth is much better for a remote than Wi-Fi. Wi-Fi requires a shitload more power than Bluetooth along with having to implement a full TCP/IP stack or use some proprietary layer 3 protocol.

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 11 Oct 2006 03:25 pm

Talez wrote:I would expect it to be an open one since there is already a HID remote control profile built into the Bluetooth standard. I can already control my mac from my mobile phone without any additional software.

Yeah i know talez, just curious to see if sony totally lock out other standard bluetooth remotes from working, just so they can get people buying their remote. I'm assuming the controllers themselves use a specialised profile no word on whether they work on pc's with bluetooth.

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 11 Oct 2006 03:31 pm

mech wrote:I mean it's awesome for people w/o universal remotes, but fucked for those of us with them

I have a universal remote. It's a universal remote that doesn't work with my PS2, my Xbox, my Logitech Z-680s, my digital TV set top box or my A/V changer.

General Chaos · Post by **General Chaos** » 11 Oct 2006 03:36 pm

Universal remote you say?

mech · Post by **mech** » 11 Oct 2006 03:39 pm

lestat wrote:It would be interesting to see if the bluetooth profile it's using is an open one. In other controller related news, i'm told that the controller doesn't have a replaceable battery. It's internal ala ipod style. Which means once the lithium ion battery dies(2-3yr life), the controller is virtually useless. Also the convenience of having a precharged battery ready to swap in is lost.

What? Where'd you hear that? That's fucked, though it will be possible to replace them, bit annoying how you can't just chuck in other batteries, BUT that is good that they're rechargeable from the get-go.

jizzlobber · Post by **jizzlobber** » 11 Oct 2006 03:43 pm

I replace my pads every few years anyway, not being able to switch batteries is a bit of a bummer though

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 11 Oct 2006 03:47 pm

Yep mech to replace the battery you need to open up the casing. Ipod rechargeable battery fiasco mk2 here we come. Obviously sony is expecting users to rebuy their controllers every 2-3 years.

amba · Post by **amba** » 11 Oct 2006 03:53 pm

This is my train of thought, illogical as it may be.

I'm a big fan of Bluetooth, but if I can't access the PS3 like the rest of my home theatre setup, then it's not part of my HT- it's just a toy that plays games.

And I don't want a toy to be my Blu- ray (OR HD- DVD, for that matter) player.

Therefore their decision to leave out a 50 cent IR transmitter has taken away the PS3 as an option for HD movies.

Also, did a search on Amazon for TVs with bluetooth. Looks like there are none. And the only amps I see are for cars. May be wrong on this.

Twit · Post by **Twit** » 11 Oct 2006 03:59 pm

There’s a dilemma between supporting universal remotes with IR and allowing you to place your components in another room by using Bluetooth/WiFi. A friend of mine for example has a small narrow room directly behind his screen where he keeps his servers, switches, amp, components etc. out of the way. There are compelling arguments to be made both for and against, however ultimately it comes down to why do Sony remotes always look like they must have some hidden buttons tucked away in all that empty space!

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 11 Oct 2006 04:01 pm

And everyone bitched about Apple taking away floppy drives too. 5 years later and everyone is using USB sticks anyway.

50 bucks says the same thing happens. Any takers?

amba · Post by **amba** » 11 Oct 2006 04:03 pm

Talez wrote:And everyone bitched about Apple taking away floppy drives too. 5 years later and everyone is using USB sticks anyway.

50 bucks says the same thing happens. Any takers?

But USB already was established as a format, and all new PCs at that time had floppys AND USB. BT is not in any home theatre components.

Not saying that it won't happen, but it will take the full 5 years.

Twit · Post by **Twit** » 11 Oct 2006 04:07 pm

Talez wrote:And everyone bitched about Apple taking away floppy drives too. 5 years later and everyone is using USB sticks anyway.

50 bucks says the same thing happens. Any takers?

Are you saying this is like having Firewire?

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 11 Oct 2006 04:10 pm

People replace their pc's more often then their tv/home entertainment setups Talez. Plus talez 1.4mb floppies became irrelevant a long time ago, especially since cheap cd-r tech became abundant and 1.4mb became a joke for storage.

I don't see a lot of compelling benefits to use bluetooth for remote control devices when IR does the job just fine and widely used by all consumer entertainment devices bar the ps3 of course.

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 11 Oct 2006 04:11 pm

Twit wrote:
Talez wrote:And everyone bitched about Apple taking away floppy drives too. 5 years later and everyone is using USB sticks anyway.

50 bucks says the same thing happens. Any takers?
Are you saying this is like having Firewire?

More like dropping stupid legacy bullshit that could be better handled by a single, open standard. Like I can plug in a USB stick/keyboard/mouse and have it just work on Windows/Mac/Linux thanks to the wonders of standard "USB Mass Storage Device", "HID Compliant Keyboard" and "HID Compliant Mouse" drivers.

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 11 Oct 2006 04:15 pm

lestat wrote:People replace their pc's more often then their tv/home entertainment setups Talez. Plus talez 1.4mb floppies became irrelevant a long time ago, especially since cheap cd-r tech became abundant and 1.4mb became a joke for storage.

5-10 years for a reasonably complete transition doesn't seem long enough?

I don't see a lot of compelling benefits to use bluetooth for remote control devices when IR does the job just fine and widely used by all consumer entertainment devices.

If you use the remote you got with the device for every device you are correct in which case whats the problem with a company switching to BT simply because they think its better?

If you're using a universal remote you still have the problem of some devices just not working or buying a remote which has a price tag comparable to an iPod. Switching to a standard HID profile using Bluetooth as an underlying transport makes perfect sense in this case. It's just that its going to be a damn annoying transition.

Spoonfan · Post by **Spoonfan** » 11 Oct 2006 04:16 pm

I'm sick of these IR reforms!

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 11 Oct 2006 04:17 pm

Spoonfan wrote:I'm sick of these IR reforms!

POTY!

Pat · Post by **Pat** » 11 Oct 2006 04:22 pm

lestat wrote:Yep mech to replace the battery you need to open up the casing. Ipod rechargeable battery fiasco mk2 here we come. Obviously sony is expecting users to rebuy their controllers every 2-3 years.

That is of course provided that they last six months without exploding in your hands first!

amba · Post by **amba** » 11 Oct 2006 04:23 pm

Talez wrote:
lestat wrote:People replace their pc's more often then their tv/home entertainment setups Talez. Plus talez 1.4mb floppies became irrelevant a long time ago, especially since cheap cd-r tech became abundant and 1.4mb became a joke for storage.
5-10 years for a reasonably complete transition doesn't seem long enough?

Point of comparison: Digital Terrestrial TV broadcasting began in Australia on 1 January 2001, so it's been 5 years. We can't even decide on a date to turn off analogue. Why? The majority of people who expect to keep their TV for 15 years. The fact that not many people see the benefits right now. The cost of the equipment comapred to what they have. What they have working perfectly fine right now, so no reason to change.

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 11 Oct 2006 04:31 pm

I'm still trying to see what real benefits a bluetooth remote offer over a IR remote? People that need all in one remotes already have them and they work fine with existing equipment. A remote is a remote in the end, could explain why i don't see any push from ce companies to incorperate bluetooth remotes in their devices.

I just see ps3 using a bluetooth remote just because they already are using a bluetooth receiver and wanted to save cost on having to include an IR port.

Cletus · Post by **Cletus** » 11 Oct 2006 04:41 pm

There'd be countless amounts of people without a set top box anyway.

Imagine the outcry if dole bludgers and single mothers were unable to sit on their lazy arses and watch free television all day on an old borrowed TV.

Not that I'd care,only Labor would...because even the most worthless people in society are possible voters.

And bluetooth for remotes?I don't like the idea.I find bluetotth to be unreliable and glitchy on the whole anyway.Nothing I have uses it aside from my mobile and PDA and I removed it from my PC because it was slow and didn't always find the devices it needed to.

In the end,anything that can use a remote comes with one so why does it all have be the same?

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 11 Oct 2006 04:43 pm

amba wrote:Point of comparison: Digital Terrestrial TV broadcasting began in Australia on 1 January 2001, so it's been 5 years. We can't even decide on a date to turn off analogue. Why? The majority of people who expect to keep their TV for 15 years. The fact that not many people see the benefits right now. The cost of the equipment comapred to what they have. What they have working perfectly fine right now, so no reason to change.

Digital TV has been a legislative cockup from the very beginning. The government killed off everything attractive about DTV bar the quality increase (and tried to anyway by allowing 576p to be called "HDTV") so that DTV couldn't compete with Foxtel and fuck themselves over in the Telstra sale.