Sony sez: IR is dead... Long live Bluetooth!

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 13 Oct 2006 11:03 am

Talez wrote:
lestat wrote:Cry cry cry! My perfectly usable 3 year old gear isn't bleeding edge anymore!
Fixed.

Try my barely 12month year old monitor, that's 1200p won't accept a hdmi signal.

And tv's you can buy now even with 1080p native res don't accept 1080p over hdmi. That's what I'm talking about, we all know tv technology will improve but video standards should not change at the rate I change my underwear. It's just a pathetic mess. Combine that with this stupid next gen dvd war, ICT flags, DRM bullshit and for people that spend their hard earned money on gear watching it become incompatible and being forced to upgrade to enjoy what they wanted in the first place is just fucked up. You wouldn't understand though Talez, I doubt you've even invested 1/4 of what i've spent over the years on tv/home theatre gear.

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 13 Oct 2006 11:24 am

lestat wrote:Try my barely 12month year old monitor, that's 1200p won't accept a hdmi signal.

Boo. Hoo.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2M-HDMI-to-DVI-H" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... dZViewItem

And tv's you can buy now even with 1080p native res don't accept 1080p over hdmi. That's what I'm talking about, we all know tv technology will improve but video standards should not change at the rate I change my underwear. It's just a pathetic mess.

Oh noes. If you were to buy a 1080p TV today without HDMI or at least DVI/HDCP you're an idiot and deserve everything you get.

You wouldn't understand though Talez, I doubt you've even invested 1/4 of what i've spent over the years on tv/home theatre gear.

I don't rush into decisions based on flavour of the month so I don't have to spend 1/4 of what you've invested over the years.

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 13 Oct 2006 11:35 am

Talez wrote:
lestat wrote:Try my barely 12month year old monitor, that's 1200p won't accept a hdmi signal.
Boo. Hoo.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2M-HDMI-to-DVI-H" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... dZViewItem

HDCP says hi.

Talez wrote:
And tv's you can buy now even with 1080p native res don't accept 1080p over hdmi. That's what I'm talking about, we all know tv technology will improve but video standards should not change at the rate I change my underwear. It's just a pathetic mess.
Oh noes. If you were to buy a 1080p TV today without HDMI or at least DVI/HDCP you're an idiot and deserve everything you get.

Have you bought any HDTV's Talez? Have you gotten what you deserved to get? I guess you deserved what you got when you got that nice dead pixel in your little $180 DS? You sure had a big cry about it didn't you, was I dick to you about it like you're being now? Try multiplying that aggravation by a much larger financial factor. Realising that tv cost you months of hard work to afford and you're expected now to fork out thousands more to enjoy what you should rightfully be able to enjoy in the first place.

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 13 Oct 2006 11:57 am

lestat wrote:HDCP says hi.

ICT isn't coming in till 2010.

lestat wrote:Have you bought any HDTV's Talez? Have you gotten what you deserved to get?

I don't have a HDTV, lestat. I only have a high res monitor and I watch my HDTV on that. Do you know why? Because I looked at the HDTV situation (576p and 1080i channels only), I looked at the upcoming standards (fully digital HDMI around the corner), I looked at the value HD panels (720p and 768p panels are permanently scaled for every HDTV channel, cheap 768p panels are permanently scaled for 720p gaming) and I decided it wasn't the right time to buy.

I have been waiting very patiently for a HD panel that suits my needs and when I do decide to buy it will be to a baseline standard that I know won't chop and change because I don't have $20,000 in assets that I can use as collateral on a personal loan for a $5,000 display. This looks to be 1080p and HDMI bar any network deciding to actually start broadcasting in 720p.

That's not to say I miss out on all technology by waiting. A year and a half ago I bought a set of Z-680 speakers. They featured decent quality, Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS along with optical, co-ax and 3.5mm input. This was a baseline standard I could get behind and would serve me well in the years to come (since DD 5.1 and optical weren't and still aren't going anywhere) and it was at the right price and I haven't been let down ever since.

lestat wrote:I guess you deserved what you got when you got that nice dead pixel in your little $180 DS? You sure had a big cry about it didn't you, was I dick to you about it?

I did my research that ended up being ever so slightly incorrect. It was really unavoidable since I was only told something completely different when push came to shove and that information wasn't available to me when I was looking to upgrade my DS.

Try multiplying that aggravation by much larger financial factor. Realising that tv cost you months of hard work to afford.

You bought when you bought because you wanted HD. It's not like HDMI was a big secret back then. If you were patient you could have gotten a DVI/HDCP panel but you decided to hop on the bandwagon at that time just like I got burned when I went to built my PC last. I got screwed because at that time my choices were AGP boards (when I knew PCI-e was around the corner) with Socket 478 and Socket 754 (which were both at their respective ends of the upgrade paths). I knew better was coming but I couldn't wait anymore.

DjBigK · Post by **DjBigK** » 13 Oct 2006 12:06 pm

No offence, but with your scale of setup, it's easy to understand why you don't see the need for a Universal remote.

The problem with waiting for technology is that you'll always be waiting for the next big thing. At some stage you have to actually buy something.

DjBigK · Post by **DjBigK** » 13 Oct 2006 12:15 pm

Talez wrote: You bought when you bought because you wanted HD. It's not like HDMI was a big secret back then. If you were patient you could have gotten a DVI/HDCP panel but you decided to hop on the bandwagon at that time just like I got burned when I went to built my PC last. I got screwed because at that time my choices were AGP boards (when I knew PCI-e was around the corner) with Socket 478 and Socket 754 (which were both at their respective ends of the upgrade paths). I knew better was coming but I couldn't wait anymore.

I have to step in here and say that for the most part there is stuff all advantage gained from using HDMI. It's largely another interconnect medium, and at the moment for most it's largely like saying that SCART is better than S-Video. There are advantages to it, in that it's high bandwidth will allow for higher definition picture, and audio, but at the same time, almost the same level of visual quality is obtainable through analogue interconnects (Component). In terms of high definition audio, there isn't really a great deal of it, and what there is, can be heard using direct analogue inputs on receivers, sure the cabling is a little more expensive, and messy, but once it is connected, it's connected, so it's only a one off concern.

I'll be going fine with my HD display that will at best take an RGB-HV connection for some time from now, certainly a much better option than waiting for a 1080P HDMI/HDCP set and a bug free HDMI/HDCP receiver, which won't be a commercially viable price for some time now.

Even when it is, you really have to have 42" plus sized sets to take real advatage of the extra resolution, and so for many people there is no negligable gain. With the HD audio, to be able to audibly notice the difference you would have to have a very good receiver, and some excellent speakers (read: not logitech, though by all accounts the set you have is an excellent budget arrangement).

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 13 Oct 2006 12:31 pm

Yeah. I don't have that much money so I have to make every dollar count.

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 13 Oct 2006 12:39 pm

Talez wrote:Yeah. I don't have that much money so I have to make every dollar count.

Which is why I wished these big ce's would just stop fucking us over and agree to support 1 video format/standard for a good 10 years at least. They keep moving the goals posts and its terribly frustrating. It causes consumers like yourself to procrastinate and it screws over consumers like myself that do jump in.

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 13 Oct 2006 12:54 pm

The goal posts look to have settled at HDMI using HDCP with whatever resolution your panel supports. I'm happy with that at the moment because there's no real sign of another standard that isn't backwards compatible to HDMI 1.1. DisplayPort is dead in the water and UDI is HDMI/DVI compatible.

I'm just waiting for 1080p to drop down into my price range
(~$1300-$2000). I don't expect to be waiting longer than 18 months as Samsung already have 1080p LCD at 40 inches. If I get desperate I'll just bite the bullet and buy a 1366x768 panel with the inbuilt HD tuner.

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 13 Oct 2006 01:07 pm

Yeah they have settled a bit with hdmi, but the thing that worries me about hdmi is the fact they can keep incrementally upgrading it, we have deep colour now, something that apparently next gen codecs and bluray/hd-dvd can support. Bandwidth in 1.3 has been upped, so 2160p is next on the roadmap.

Also I fear what will happen when someone does crack hdcp and then hollywood wants to introduce a new cp mechanism because after all we're all just a bunch of dirty pirates to them and can't be trusted.

mech · Post by **mech** » 13 Oct 2006 01:13 pm

Yeah, next set I buy will be 1080p. My 720p/1080i CRT will last me a while though

The quality on a proper 1080p set is seriously amazing, should last at least 10 years without looking too shabby. Hell it's not like I can't watch DVDs on my 80cm 576i TV and enjoy them still, they still look pretty good.

Bullshit. Regardless of how much money I have, it's all just getting a bit fucking crazy.

Buying a universal remote is not "crazy" ffs, especially wrt how much a good home theatre setup costs, and how much benefit it brings. Remember, that's what we're talking about here...

It's not you specifically, but just our culture in general - one where spending and consuming more than we really need to is smiled upon, even encouraged. It's been this way for a while, but we'll see how far we can keep going like this...in terms of television, surely we'll reach a point where it's good enough, and further development isn't worth it - you could argue that, for the average joe, we reached that point with dvd.

TV IS good enough. People by nature want to consume because they like having nice things. I'd love to have a Porsche over my Mazda, but my Mazda's good enough. If you do have the money to buy a Porsche though, why get uppity about it? Spending money on expensive things and overconsuming are too different points btw.

It'll take some kind of paradigm shift like that from video to dvd to get everyone to upgrade to HD. But i guess that's just it, instead of a shift to something totally different, HD is just an "upgrade". Like the way plenty of people get along fine with 1Ghz processors and dialup, I don't think we'll see a massive change until a long time after they stop selling SD tvs.

Like I said, I still have my two old standard def TVs in my house getting used all the time, and they do me fine.

I think HDTV now is going to be like computer monitors - there won't be one standard, there'll be a whole bunch of different resolution standards, and even in 15 years time there'll be the 480i TVs hanging around.

And just like computer monitors, we don't all have the highest resolution, but so what?

It's going to cause some issues in console games though, no longer do they have a fixed resolution they use, already Tomb Raider runs better in 480p than 720p on 360.

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 13 Oct 2006 01:22 pm

I saw this nice new 1080p 42inch teac set the other day, yeah i know what you're saying "teac yuk" But honestly it looked amazing. The panel it was using was the new 42inch pva samsung panel being used in the new bravia and samsung 42inch units, which btw haven't hit locally yet. The best part was the money, it was 3.2k listed but the guy said he could do for under 3k easily. Supports 1080p though hdmi as well, 3-5 year warranty i think. Was tempted. I'm told that teac has now changed back to Japanese ownership too. Probably the best value 1080p 42inch set i've seen so far.

But I'll wait till they release something in 50-60inch 1080p size for around 5k before i upgrade. Thinking that might be possible next year if the trend continues. I got a price on the new 65inch pana 1080p plasma. 17k rrp. ouch.

mech · Post by **mech** » 13 Oct 2006 01:25 pm

Hmmm that sounds hot lestat.

But yeah, I think I want something in the 50-60" range too, current TV is 36", it'd be nice to get something substantially bigger...

But still... $3k... 1080p... 42"...

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 13 Oct 2006 01:27 pm

Yep, I'm thinking if I'm gonna spend the cash, at least i want a size upgrade over what i got now, not just a resolution bump.

btw here is a link to the tv that i was talking about.

http://www.teac.com.au/cmsutil/file.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... et_472.pdf

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 13 Oct 2006 01:32 pm

I'll take a more modest 32" or 26".

DjBigK · Post by **DjBigK** » 13 Oct 2006 01:35 pm

It's crazy how quickly the size increase is happening in people's lounge rooms!!! 15 years ago 51cm was fine, 10 years ago 68cm, now it seems 42" is the new standard size.. it's funny though, because people's lounge rooms haven't being getting bigger (excluding newly built homes, with dedicated HT rooms etc).

It is hard to pass up large size sets though, that's for sure. If someone offered me a 50" HD Plasma panel, I certainly wouldn't knock it back, though it would look crazy huge in my lounge room. So within reason I'm very happy with 36" (size isn't everything I'm told

).

In the future though the increase in resolutions means that the bigger sets are going to be absolutely kick ass. In the past the massive Rear Pro sets displaying an interlaced 576 signal looked like garbage, and rightfully so.

I wonder where the size increase will get off? Everyone is a victim of it.. my old man, and my missus's folks both have 50 inch HD plasmas, and sometimes when I get used to watching something at either of their places and then come home to my TV I lament the size difference.. though I still appreciate the vastly superior PQ to one of the sets, and the slightly superior picture to the other.

DjBigK · Post by **DjBigK** » 13 Oct 2006 01:37 pm

mech wrote:Hell it's not like I can't watch DVDs on my 80cm 576i TV and enjoy them still, they still look pretty good.

Well said, my old 68cm CRT replaced the 51cm CRT in my bedroom when I upgraded my main set. The same will happen when I upgrade again (though probably won't be for 5 years I would say).

Ben · Post by **Ben** » 13 Oct 2006 01:41 pm

mech wrote:Hmmm that sounds hot lestat.

But yeah, I think I want something in the 50-60" range too, current TV is 36", it'd be nice to get something substantially bigger...

But still... $3k... 1080p... 42"...

Holy shit your CRT is 32"?!? Fuck me that's huge for a CRT!!

DjBigK · Post by **DjBigK** » 13 Oct 2006 01:53 pm

36" (same size as mine, though it's a different set).