Clover Studios Goneburger - MOTHERFUCKING PAL STILL ON!

[selfish]

Unique graphics are totally different to "more photorealistic," which is what sony and ms (and nintendo, chickening out with zelda pfft what wankers - at least DKJB redeems them) seem to be pushing. Clover's games did look fucking amazing - i fully endorse this kind of pushing graphical boundaries.

You're right really, about the physics thing - while more advanced graphics might just be a bit of a waste, more processing power to handle better physics would be nice. And yes, the Wii is overpriced, and yes, it would be nice if it was up to par with the other consoles. But it's not.

[Pat]

But graphics are one of the main reasons Clover games ruled, so unique.

I can't even begin to imagine how amazing a next gen Okami could be...

Also, there's zero proof that a retarded control scheme is a good alternative to the evolution of computer graphics in terms of advancing gaming, and worse yet there are no examples of Wii games so far that are really new experiences beyond replacing a button press with a hand gesture. Infact having a console as underpowered as the Wii seems like a complete mismatch for an advanced control scheme - how do you interact properly with a virtual world if the machine can't power stuff like physics etc?

Clover games rule because of their artistic style. The technical side was competent, but the art was what shone through.

As for Wii games - the classics will come in time, but I dont think you can write it off because "the machine can't power stuff like physics". That's a silly arguement when plenty of other games are awesome despite having completely fucked physics, such as Sonic 1-3 &K.

[Sonic Jam]

You misunderstand Pat, their goal is to creat 3D interaction via a new control scheme, but whats the point if it's just replacing button presses with hand gestures? 360/PS3 are critiqued for being nothing more than graphica upgrades but there's a distinct possability that stuff like physics which is just starting to take off in games could have a more drastic impact on how we interact in games than changing buttons for hand gestures.

Plus Okami is one of the most technically impressive games I've ever seen, it pushes the PS2 to its limits.

[Pat]

But PS2 is outdated tech. The fact that Okami still looks good is due to its art - in 10 years it will still look good while other more 'realistic' games will have aged horribly.

As for Wii - I think you misunderstand their intention. The mantra "new ways to play games" seems to be taking a more naturalistic approach to game control - translating concrete motions rather than abstract button pushes into game actions. Consider Wii Airplane, for example. Do you really think that game would benefit from advanced fluid mechanics and calculating laminar flow in real time? I think not.

[Sonic Jam]

Does tetris benefit from improve physics? No.

Does Monkey Ball? Yes.

Depends entirely on the game Pat.

Also with the 10 years down the line talk, OFCOURSE ART WILL MATTER MORE THAN TECH... But there are plenty of realistic games with good art also Pat. Cell shading doesnt' automatically make good art nor does it make timeless graphics, I have no idea how these concepts got stuck in your head.

Edit - Also, I think there are plenty of good looking PS2 games still, we're not so far gone from the PS2 era that all PS2 games look like shit yet Pat.

[Pat]

Cell shading doesnt' automatically make good art nor does it make timeless graphics, I have no idea how these concepts got stuck in your head.

I dont know where you saw me say that. Maybe youre assuming too much. I think there are plenty of great looking games that arent necessarily technically impressive. Rez, SOTC, Beyond Good and Evil for starters. None of those are cel shaded.

As for physics, you need to re-read what I said. There is such a thing as overkill. Havok-physics modelled falling books doesnt improve gameplay. Calculating water currents and splashes doesnt improve gameplay. To a certain extent, it enhances the immersive effect - but it's never something that should take precedence over consistent, reliable game-physics which do not need to replicate real life or even attempt to.

If you want to model real world physics, by all means, get a shit-hot chipset and go nuts. Hell, why not even model a real gas and thermal expansion while you're at it. But as you said with the SMB example, and Wii Airplane as I mentioned, the physics doesnt need to be accurate. Only consistent.

[Sonic Jam]

But Pat, even shit physics needs alot of power if its more than a few objects, just look at Half Life 2 XBOX - Very shitty physics compared to the stuff we are going to get soon and it ran like crap with the ammount of interactive things in the environment.

Back on topic, It seems only Mikami is staying with Capcom, the guy who made OKAMI, RE2, and DMC is bailing along with another designer.

I hope they do well =/

[Pat]

And, case in point, Wave Race 64 had great physics for its time.

But yeah, back to the topic - Okami. Apparently Capcom will gain full copyright over Clover's games, so hopefully they do the PAL port. Please.

[Sonic Jam]

How is that a case in point?

The N64 was a MONSTER for its time.

[Pat]

Case in point being that WaveRace 64 is still great fun to play, despite being surpassed. Fun games with convincing, if not bleeding edge physics will be eminently possible on samecube hardware.

[Sonic Jam]

Uh?

I never said old games arn't fun, I said advances in fields like real time physics and other areas could end up more important than replacing buttons with hand gestures.

This was all in response to Selfish's claims that the industry is headed for doom and thank god for Nintendo giving us hand gestures and mini games.

[selfish]

i claimed none of that
it was all lestat, your honour

[Pat]

http://au.gamespot.com/ps2/adventure/ok" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... id=6159819

UPDATE

[UPDATE] Until Clover's doors are closed for good in March 2007, the Capcom representative said that the remaining staff will be busy working on the PAL versions of Okami and God Hand. She also confirmed that Capcom retains all the intellectual property rights to Clover's games.