This bikie "war"

[Twiztid Elf]

This thread kinda belongs in the 'Seeking the Truth' thread, but I'm ashamed of what that's become, and it'll just get washed away in there without discussion/attention.
+ it's kinda topical with it being in the news right now anyhow.

Anyways, tough times are ahead. I think we all know this. The extent? Who knows? But if the US defaults, things are going to get ugly pretty quickly I reckon.

So here's my take:
If things do get ugly, who are the only group with any power to oppose the government/military in this country? The bikies right? As much as they hate each other, they hate the establishment more, and they will unite when seriously opposed.

What threat do Bikies pose to normal folk? Negligible right? So why all the hoo-har? This propaganda war is to break up this uncontrolled power once and for all.
Bringing the military in to oppose Australian citizens on Australian soil. This is really frightening stuff.

Am I potentially subject to these anti-bikie laws riding my scooter to the station or gathering with friends?

GameHED - I'm asking you nicely. You're welcome to contribute. I'd like to hear your thoughts, but please, don't shit up my thread.

[itch]

It's pretty suss, I had similar thoughts.

[Rorschach]

So here's my take:
If things do get ugly, who are the only group with any power to oppose the government/military in this country? The bikies right? As much as they hate each other, they hate the establishment more, and they will unite when seriously opposed.

What threat do Bikies pose to normal folk? Negligible right? So why all the hoo-har? This propaganda war is to break up this uncontrolled power once and for all.
Bringing the military in to oppose Australian citizens on Australian soil. This is really frightening stuff.

Am I potentially subject to these anti-bikie laws riding my scooter to the station or gathering with friends?

Fairly romantic view of bikies there. Having dealt with them on a regular basis I can say that they are nothing but violent, vicious bullies that take pleasure in standing over people. They deal drugs in weight which ruins communities and they intimidate honest citizens when they can't get their way. A lot of the stuff bikies do goes unreported because in most cases they go straight for families which discourages people from getting help when they are subject to bikie attention.

I doubt these laws, if they are passed, will have a huge effect because the judiciary will persist in giving out the most lenient sentence they can manage (at least in QLD). Taking them off the road though, for however long, is a small win. Wish we had something like the RICO act in Australia.

[General Chaos]

Checking in from the socialist utopia known as France... but I digress.

My understanding is the US is in no danger of default. What they are in danger of is defaulting on political promises they can't afford which is entirely different.

Anyhow that aside I am not across what is going on back home so I will keep my eye out in some downtime.

[t0mby]

Bringing the military in to oppose Australian citizens on Australian soil. This is really frightening stuff.

First I've heard this, what's this about?

[Rorschach]

Police requested ADF assistance to breach a Hell 's Angels compound.

[Twiztid Elf]

Fairly romantic view of bikies there. Having dealt with them on a regular basis I can say that they are nothing but violent, vicious bullies that take pleasure in standing over people. They deal drugs in weight which ruins communities and they intimidate honest citizens when they can't get their way.

I must admit, I have nothing to do with bikies at all, so I will acknowledge my ignorance on the subject. I'd expect the bikies you're dealing with are the bottom of the barrel for sure.
Just did a quick read of that RICO act, and yeah, that looks pretty good as it deals with organized crime on a much broader level, with criminal bikie groups just being among the targets. It's not singling out one specific group.

What bothers me as an outsider looking in is i'm asking the questions "What have these guys done?", "Why are they getting special treatment?", and "Why are special interest groups being singled out?".
Sure I'm not naive enough to believe some bikies and gangs aren't involved in organized crime. But that's crime. Treat it as crime. And organized crime should be treated as organized crime. Why tarnish every innocent motorcyclist that joins a club?

tomby:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-12/p ... ection=vic" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wow, you gotta dig deep on the mainstream news sites to find stuff about it. Wonder why that is?

[Rorschach]

Any 1% MC, regardless of the propaganda to the contrary, is out to make money illicitly - usually through drugs and protection rackets, they are quintessentially thugs and criminals in every sense of the word - from the presidents all the way down to the street roller. Bikies would love to classify themselves as a special interest group. There are no 'good' bikies, their whole charter is set up to be inimical to normal society. Bikies are like the Mafia, the operate just below the surface and when they are threatened they seek refuge in the very laws they oppose and do not formally recognise. I think this purge is well overdue, they've been allowed to metastasize since the brawl at Sydney airport virtually unchecked. As for motorbike groups that ride together and who are making a fluff over these new laws - grow up. They're not going to be singled out unless they're doing something illegal on the road or drink/drug riding.

As for the ADF - they were merely a resource. Most times Police can't handle a situation involving specialised breaching or have the training to do it so they call someone in who can. Had the ADF been used to bear arms against any persons present that would have been a completely different story but in operations like these their roles are tightly defined and cannot act without the authority of the on site commander. It's like drug raids, Police routinely use Customs dogs for searches and cross organisation operations happen all the time in the north of Australia without a raised eyebrow. The bikies are a worthy target because they are a true criminal organisations that need to be put down.

[Misly]

Police are the biggest gang with so many corrupt pigs amongst them. Joining that gang with our military is scary stuff. Police already abuse the power we grant them. They dont need anymore. NWA said it best. Fuck the police.

[Madmya]

Bikies are stains.

[Rorschach]

Police are the biggest gang with so many corrupt pigs amongst them. Joining that gang with our military is scary stuff. Police already abuse the power we grant them. They dont need anymore.

You base this on what? Most times people underestimate the amount of powers officers have to enforce the law and when they do act in accordance with procedure they get screamed at for 'abusing' their power. You'd be surprised how often discretion is used to keep people out of court even when they are acting like fuckwits.

NWA said it best. Fuck the police.

Great mantra there champ.

[Misly]

I have seen things and been the victim of corrupt police that I cant prove because they outright lied. Its personal for me, so I find it hard to shut up. But they have way to much opportunity to be corrupt, a gang like mentality and not enough accountability.

[guttermouth]

When you have bikie members who live in multi million dollar apartments with brand new sports cars who never worked a day in their life except in prison....where do they get their money from??

A lot of bikes today don't even ride motor bikes, in Sydney they consist of track suit wearing Lebos who are nothing more than organized criminals.....

There is no conspiracy theory wank fest involved in the governments actions.
With the constant drive by shootings in numerous states it's only a matter of time before someone innocent is killed.

[Rorschach]

I have seen things and been the victim of corrupt police that I cant prove because they outright lied. Its personal for me, so I find it hard to shut up. But they have way to much opportunity to be corrupt, a gang like mentality and not enough accountability.

I'm genuinely sorry then, one thing I hate more than criminals in general are criminals wearing the uniform. Unfortunately, large public institutions are susceptible to hereditary corruption - the hope being that whistleblowers step forward when they see something.

[t0mby]

When you have bikie members who live in multi million dollar apartments with brand new sports cars who never worked a day in their life except in prison....where do they get their money from??

The Govt is only angry because they are not getting a cut of it. Governments don't like it when you benefit and they don't.

[guttermouth]

When you have bikie members who live in multi million dollar apartments with brand new sports cars who never worked a day in their life except in prison....where do they get their money from??

The Govt is only angry because they are not getting a cut of it. Governments don't like it when you benefit and they don't.

So what your saying that people who have millions of dollars from never having a job, the only reason the government is after them is because the government just wants their cut??

So it has nothing to do with the criminal activity involved in obtaining these funds.....


Because really the Bikie gangs are all misunderstood bike enthusiasts(even though some of Em have never ridden a bike) and the main reason for the club is family BBQs and the annual Xmas toy run for kids in hospitals......

[Twiztid Elf]

Like Misly, i've been on the receiving end of some pretty dodgey police activity a few times. I'm not sure it's possible for a youth in Brisbane in the late 80's not to have been... I've also personally known some awesome cops.

Thanks Rors for taking the time to contribute. It is appreciated.
tbh, I think I blame modern media. They tell you nothng. I've been sitting here watching some report about 'riots' in some part of the world, and I ask my wife "what were they rioting about?" She doesn't know either be uase the news didn't bother to report it comprehensively.

[GreyWizzard]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-2 ... ws/5033772" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So I read that as you are automatically guilty and you now have to prove your innocence.

[Rorschach]

You read wrong, only bail is refused. Which it should be, parole and bail in Queensland are a joke. More people who are being let out between court appearances should be staying in.

[Seraph]

It's important that people suspected to be bikies are refused bail. If they are granted bail, and they are given the chance, they will be able to return to their garage and touch their enchanted motorcycles - the source of their power and criminal genius.

This is why people found to be loud and angry while drunk in a place that serves alcohol are only granted bail if they don't wear belt buckles that claim them to be rebellious - they probably have no magical bikes that can grant them immunity from existing laws.

[GameHED]

This thread kinda belongs in the 'Seeking the Truth' thread, but I'm ashamed of what that's become, and it'll just get washed away in there without discussion/attention.
+ it's kinda topical with it being in the news right now anyhow.

Anyways, tough times are ahead. I think we all know this. The extent? Who knows? But if the US defaults, things are going to get ugly pretty quickly I reckon.

So here's my take:
If things do get ugly, who are the only group with any power to oppose the government/military in this country? The bikies right? As much as they hate each other, they hate the establishment more, and they will unite when seriously opposed.

What threat do Bikies pose to normal folk? Negligible right? So why all the hoo-har? This propaganda war is to break up this uncontrolled power once and for all.
Bringing the military in to oppose Australian citizens on Australian soil. This is really frightening stuff.

Am I potentially subject to these anti-bikie laws riding my scooter to the station or gathering with friends?

GameHED - I'm asking you nicely. You're welcome to contribute. I'd like to hear your thoughts, but please, don't shit up my thread.

You are not subject to any laws that are in violation of common law. If the government steals property you must not use thier justice system to obtain what is rightfully yours since the unjust laws are not to be obeyed in a just society. (you have to understand they make money out of you arguing with them so they benefit when you play under thier rules which are designed to give them unfair advantages - if the government is corrupt why would you use a government's justice system to determine what is fairness?)

I don't steal because government says "do not steal". I choose to not steal because God says stealing is wrong. God also let a thief into heaven at the crucifixion of Jesus because of mercy and love. All our laws have basis in our religions and the beliefs of the people in a supreme teacher with higher intelligence guiding us on a path to higher spiritual form. Your religious laws are much more important than any laws your government decides are "good" for you. If you think riding a bike is ok ride a bike and ask the government for proof of thier claim that you had harmed anyone or damaged property. Get to know the police and make sure to remind them of thier duty. You won't co-operate or tolerate any kind of abuse. If you feel you are being unfairly treated, document the abuse. No point making baseless accusations. Prove things with witnesses, do investigation on other people who have had the same problem with you etc.

There will always be evil people in society. You should work to get these guys out of power for the sake of the community. Don't attack the police in general or the government. Go after the guy himself. Some of them are probably there because they are attracted to the power they feel being in control of others so they chose that career not because they care about justice. That's not a crime. But be aware this does not mean they can hide behind the good reputation of the place they work at for the abusive behavior. You are not out to demonise the police just doing what is right.
Do you want to join a bikie gang at some future date? If a gang stole off you would you expect police to do whatever was needed to stop them from being able to continue growing or just forgive them and forget about it and accept that this stuff hapoens and move on? I don't see the issue here?

What if your son joined a gang and got killed in a shootout? If it leads to peaceful communities then I don't really see what the deal is. It's possible the government actually wants the money of illegal drugs so they need to eliminate competition for when they unofficially control it. Money made from this can then go into funding black ops tech which will be used to increase the illegal activities our government engages in outside of public knowledge. (ie it's just power competing against power - the intent is militarising police more and more and bribing police with the offer to give them more toys like drones and military tech in exchange for disobeying the wishes of the people who they will oppress with this stuff later on)

The idea that the us is going to default has not much to do with it. Yanks are angry about obama's destruction of the nation which is planned to collapse by the globalists who shipped all the jobs overseas and took out all manufacturing jobs away from the nation so that we as a global community must then compete with people in countries where workers have virtually no breaks and treated like shit. The chinese guys that assemble your apple devices can't even commit suicide at foxconn due to the usage of suicide nets. The illuminati wants to have two classes:

1 the elite with infinite wealth who believe they have a divine right to rule based on bloodlines
2 slaves that are kept alive to do jobs that can't yet be automated

They planned this collapse, it was not the president being stupid or incompetent. It is part of a global conspiracy to transform society in preparation for their religious leader (freemasons worship lucifer the light bearer - aka satan the fallen angel that was obsessed with his own beauty and wishes to prevent man from obtaining his place in God's plan) ...who will create his own religion and demand you bow down to a talking statue. If you do not get the mark of the beast you will not be able buy and sell. Who controls all trade and commerce in the world? Satan. The upc on all the stuff you buy is universal. It is controlled tightly and when chips/tattoos are mandatory you will be marked as sons of satan so God can determine who not to protect.

When you loot a nation of its wealth and then place all the jobs ovrseas you prevent that nation from becoming strong. Other nations are working hard to fight against this since they too are victims and want to break out of the control and wish to preserve their sovereignty above trying to please scammers. Lyndon larouche has the right ideas. Man was created in the image of God. What makes us different from mere beasts is we create things like God, that further the human race each time a work of art is made, an idea or invention is thought up and new ways of doing things that have domino effect on others to gradually keep us growing and changing and getting better and better at the things we pursue. The weeds that are choking this growth are these eugenicists that got into power and ever since the jfk assassination we have not gotten stronger or happier or more wealthy. We have gotten poorer and worse off. The solution is imprison these idiots that are ruining nations. First you must become independent not interdependent on other nations to survive. Being sovereign and then making partnerships is better than relying on other nations for survival so that if one of them collapses it creates chain reactions that hurt everyone in the chain. Every nation must figure out ways to promote their own nations growth in power, not worry about uniting power together to create a dictatorship to oppress their own people. It's the difference between living in sith lord style empire or a republic guided by people who wish to live in a system which punishes injustice instead of rewarding it.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/pro ... cy/4929714" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Twiztid Elf]

It's hard to believe this is real....
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensl ... 2wm1l.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Queensland Police want recreational motorcycle riders to give them a call before heading out on the roads, to avoid law-abiding citizens being “harassed” by police.

[Froggy]

How about they actually just arrest them when they do something wrong like everyone else and change the laws to mandatory sentences if you are caught doing particular crimes and part of a bikie gang then you'll do 3 years non parole for this etc. It takes the magistrates ability to fuck over the community with ridiculous sentences out of the equation and will probably solve a large part of the problem which is the judiciary not upholding community standards and backing up Police work.

[Peppermint Lounge]

[GameHED]

Do not consent to searches. If you are not crimnal, you have the rights to not be harassed. Always be armed with camera or witness to ensure you are not being unfairly treated. You know mainstream media has the power to spin a story in favour of whatever organisation it is controlled by. Always assume corruption exists until proven otherwise. Hope for the best, (that there are good cops who won't go along with idiotic fascist policy) but be prepared for the worst. (document everything because the community needs that info to know your side of the story) They are testing to see if you will exercise your rights. Not exercising them is your fault. Demand from them what they demand from you. How do you know for instance they (police) are not criminals wearing a police uniform who are gang members too? Ask them for identification.

Judge not, lest ye be judged. These are the teacings of Jesus Christ. If someone suspects you are in fact criminal, demand to see what the accusation is based on. You are innocent until proof of your guilt is provided. There is only so much time in a day, so you make sure to let them know that as time is lost so is money. They want a nazi like system of control. So give it to them by demanding they provide information to help them/you both get to the truth. (to find out if they are not conmen posing as cops or actors wearing convincing disguises to gather intelligence on the community for a clandestine organisation) Explain that these measures must be brought in to ensure safety against fraud. Just as you hear about fake charities run by people who are not who they say they are, or fake emails or phone scams by hackers outside of the country. No man can demand something from another against the will of the man unless you signed contract or agreed to it willingly. Ask where you ever consented to a given law before they begin using legalese to trick you. If you never agreed the law was good, never gave up righs to be bound by contract, there is no legal power to stop you unless you are a criminal who has harmed someone or damaged something. Until they can provide it, say no thanks to the service being offered to protect you and the community from the gang crimes. (it is valuable to those who really do feel unsafe, bu perhaps you don't so feel it isn't needed)

You should aways offer to help them find the criminals if you encounter some criminal out there. This way you can work together without looking like you hate cops. If they sense you hate them they can interpret that as you being offended at cops protecting the community from crime. Be nice. If you were shot at by gangs you would expect cops to shoot the criminal to protect you. You are not taking sides. you just want to exercise your rights. You pay for cops when you pay your taxes. Just make sure they don't break the laws themselves. You do that by exercising your rights otherwsie they wil get used to obeying the NWO (claiming they were 'just following orders' like the nazis and think it is ok to follow evil men who loot the nations wealth through trickery). This is exactly what the government likes to do, pit one side against each other and then offer a 'solution' which hurts the one or the other sides but gains something to bureaucrats. (usually resulting in bigger government, wasted resources, and profits to the government as it makes money for the elite who create laws to get rich and control the population - ie carbon tax)