Yep loved it. Just the right amount of nostalgia. Agreed that Han dying was the right thing, although while it wasn't a surprise, fuck it still hurt
Surely Rey will be Luke's daughter? Hopefully not Kylo/Ben's sister, that'd be dumb.
Few minor stupid nitpicky things...when Han and Leia were talking about Kylo, and one of them said he has "too much Darth Vader in him", I really wish they said "too much of his Grandfather" or something along those lines. Just to really hammer it home, and kind of makes it more understandable.
And where were the B-Wings? Really could've used em in that final attack!
Actually turns out Kylo said "Grandfather" when taking to Vader's helmet. Missed that bit (found some of his dialogue a bit hard to hear to be honest).
A friend of mine posted KYLO RENN KILLS HAN SOLO!! on Facebook. Was the first post in my feed on Wednesday morning. Was not happy. Ignored it. Then he texted me the same thing to make sure I saw it. Really fucking pissed. He's never seen a star wars movie and has no interest in them. Just wanted to ruin it. Fucking dick.
Really enjoyed it. Only chip against is the balls to the wall action from start to finish. In the original movie there were quiet periods where the exposition took place but I'm guessing the writers assumed most people have seen the original series and didn't need it. Not a big knock though.
Liked:
- Rey and Finn. Great characterisations and really good casting - particularly Daisy. They will own this series if the next two episodes maintain the quality.
- Good balance between practical and CGI effects.
- Death of Solo.
- Kylo Ren not being killed off at the end. Biggest thing I hated about the prequels was how Lucas killed off the apprentice each movie. Darth Maul could have been awesome had he the space to develop.
- Light sabre duel at the end. Awesome, awesome, awesome. J.J. gets it.
- Stormtroopers are actually menacing and an effective military unit.
- Finn vs the Stormtrooper. See above, showed that the are badarse and capable of subduing galaxies. Something lacking from the original movies where they were little more than cannon fodder.
Disliked:
- Not a lot. Allows me to completely forget the prequels.
- Lack of Captain Phasma. Trailers lead you on a bit, gives the impression she has a more important role. Hopefully she gets more screen time in the sequels.
Last edited by Rorschach on 18 Dec 2015 08:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gamma wrote:Yeah no excuses Unfnk, I just got back from seeing it and have to graduate in 4 hours.
Turned out that my interview was this morning. I was rocking out to the conference call hold music for half an hour at two different times before I re-read the email and noticed "8am your time, Friday December 18"
(pretty sure I rocked the shit out of the interview, btw )
I just got home from watching it. I didn't hate it. I also didn't love it to bits. I also found it a bit predictable, aside from Han's death. I thought they could have held off on the "Kylo is Han & Leia's kid" reveal until quite a bit later. I also thought the coda of Rey finding Luke could have been done in the next film.
She's obviously his kid. Also, the Supreme Leader is even smaller in stature than Yoda.
Anyway, I need to see it at least one more time before I make up my mind on it. I hope that short critter with the glasses makes a comeback.
The sky calls to us; if we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars
I don't think I want to wait two or three years to find out.
There's a comic coming out next year which will apparently explain it. I'll read it and let you know. I suspect the answer is that it's to distinguish Episode 7 C3PO toys from earlier ones.
I said the same thing to t0mby. During that discussion I mentioned Threepio's silver leg which t0mby was not aware of. And I doubt any of the action figures were released that way. But apparently when he was put into service for the Organa royal family (between ep 3 and 4) a bomb was planted in his leg. The plot was foiled and the leg replaced with a silver one as there were no spare gold ones. Hard times apparently. The real story was the character designers wanted him to look like he had a history.
But you're right, it's to sell him as a new figure.
I thought Rey was fucking brilliant. She stole the show.
Finn was excellent too.
Han dying.. well.. I had that spoiled for me months ago.. but it was right to happen.
The effects were balanced (You suck George).
It was amusing in the right places.
It had shout outs to the fans that weren't too in your face.
There were a few watery eye moments.
My bet is the Rey is Luke's daughter.. she was being trained at his Jedi school but when shit went bad with Kylo.. she was hidden because Kylo was pissed at Luke and likely to hurt Rey in order to hurt him. Having had some training as a child would explain why she was able to do the whole suggestion thing in the torture chamber thing. She had forgotten it and it had been AWAKENED!!
Just found out today that the Stormtrooper in the Force suggestion scene with Rey was Daniel Craig doing a cameo. Very cool scene now in hindsight knowing who is under the helmet.
Saw it last night, they nailed the action set pieces and props. It all looked fantastic, Kylo Ren is a really interesting character, I enjoyed watching him carry the Vader torch, the final bridge scene was predictable though, saw that coming a mile away. Actually the whole movie plot is basically a new hope remake. That was the disappointing aspect of the movie, too much nostalgia pandering strips this movie of having its own identity in the series.
At least we have a new group of interesting characters which sets the story line up for some interesting things provided they don't repeat what they did here and ape the story line from 5/6. They can't go down the redemption path either, what he did on the bridge is unredeemable imo.
Luke looked boss at the end, Rey was great, she has a lot of screen charisma and she has this strength about her, she reminded me of the actress Lena headey that plays cersei in game of thrones/sarah terminator chronicles. Rey is definitely Luke's daughter, it's the only explanation why she was able to be as strong as Kylo Ren and so quickly. I'm guessing after the Jedi academy was destroyed, he sent her away to protect her since snoke/the knights of Ren are hunting Luke down.
I was pretty much Episode IV with bits of V/VI mixed in... but that's ok... they probably needed to do that to reground the series after the clusterfuck of Episodes I-III.
Rey was excellent. Finn and Rylo not far behind. Also loved Poe. These are some good characters to take the series forward.
Loved the light sabre duels at the end. The way Rylo was pacing and slapping his wound was cool.
I'm assuming Rey has already had Jedi training... before she was marooned as a child... to account for her Jedi skills coming on at an expodential rate. Even if she is Luke's daughter it took him years of training with Yoda to get to her level! Wonder if George Lucas has had her midichlorian count sent to the lab?
Darwi wrote:
I'm assuming Rey has already had Jedi training... before she was marooned as a child... to account for her Jedi skills coming on at an expodential rate. Even if she is Luke's daughter it took him years of training with Yoda to get to her level!
That's because her force was..... AWAKENED!
selfish wrote:Being a massive fanboy and trying to hide it is Lestat's worst bottleneck.
Heard the movie sucked because it's a remake of a new hope instead of new sequel.
Will see this soon.
Like mad max they couldn't help putting feminist friendly shit in the movie.
Ghostbusters, star wars mad max have been infested wth anti-male messages. It's stupid and unrealistic. Does every movie have to be buffy the vampire slayer? lol
What I would love to see is a charismatic bad guy who is female that manipulates everyone using jedi mind tricks, then it will be balanced movie. (like star wars equivalent of the joker but female. I bet feminist would never allow that. Only males are bad guys because ..patriarchy)
The reason sith lord could beat the good guys was stealth and using weaknesses in moral character to gain stronghold over thier mind and twist thier own belief systems to use against them through divide and conquer tactics. He wasn't better than yoda in sword fighting. His power is through deception.
You need twists so people can't predict the story easily. Hopefully it's not too rigid in sticking to template. It will just come off as a cash grab. (even if it is it shouldn't be proud to be that, but rather try to differentiate itself enough without making fans go apeshit. This way everyone gets something new.)
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad." -Shigeru Miyamoto
Saw it opening day. Felt disappointed all the way through and just shattered after it finished. I didn't enjoy the constant obvious references of the OT. I didn't like the way it was pretty much A New Hope. I hated that because they're trying to erase the existence of the prequels they put in almost all the main OT characters to give us nostalgia feels and it didn't work on me. The characters felt like they were trying too hard to be funny and likeable and far too similar to the characters in the OT. I didn't understand how Rey knew how to use the force to get Daniel Craig to let her out of the chair. Another Death Star? Another trench run? How could they be so unoriginal? It fucking irritated me.
I just kept thinking about this film. Why was I so disappointed in a film that was competently made, fairly well scripted, had good performances and enough held back to keep us waiting for episode 8. How was I so disappointed? I decided to watch it again with expectations in check- I enjoyed it FAR more 2nd time around. Obviously OT references didn't seem to bother me now. The Rey character learning or awakening the force is still confusing to me but I'm willing to wait to find out how she seems to be so good in the force.
I'm the first to admit I didn't think the prequels were the abortions most people seem to think they are. They aren't great films but they aren't total wastes of time. For mine, this sits probably just above Revenge of the Sith and below the OT. I'm going to go see it again but in 3D and no doubt I'll enjoy it even more. Only thing I remained disappointed in on 2nd viewing was the really average John Williams score. Yes he had the classic themes for Han, Leia and Luke running throughout, but where was the really stirring themes for Kylo? Rey? Even Poe!?
Vince wrote:I just kept thinking about this film. Why was I so disappointed in a film that was competently made, fairly well scripted, had good performances and enough held back to keep us waiting for episode 8. How was I so disappointed?
Because every single fucking place on the interwebs has been "we won't spoil it for you, but you'll love it", thus effectively spoiling the film for us anyway.
I put this up on my G+ page;
I'd just like to to this moment to remind everybody that The Phantom Menace was well-received. It reviewed positively, and even received standing ovations at the midnight premieres. People even liked Jar-Jar Binks at first.
It was only after we cynical internet users were able to communicate our minor quibbles with each other that everything snowballed into the perception that the film was a load of stinking rubbish. Sure, the second two didn't do much (anything) to fix this perception, but nobody was really able to communicate their minor quibbles (and I think there probably would have been many) with the first Star Wars in such an open forum, back in 1977.
I don't think the prequels were as bad as everybody says. Sure, they weren't great works of cinematic storytelling, but then neither were the originals.
I think what really ruined the prequels wasn't so much George Lucas, but we; the internet commentators. The people who had minor gripes about something. We, who had impossibly high expectations based on imperfect recollections.
I'm not saying I didn't like The Force Awakens. I'm also not saying I'm in love with it.
All these "spoiler free" reviews going around are spoiling it in a much more fundamental way in my opinion; they're setting an expectation that you'll love the film. They may not be spoiling things in the manner of "Darth Vader is Princess Leia's father" but they are changing people's expectations just by indicating whether or not it's good or bad.
Just remember that Phantom Menace reviewed as "good" when it was first released.
The sky calls to us; if we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars
Vince wrote:I just kept thinking about this film. Why was I so disappointed in a film that was competently made, fairly well scripted, had good performances and enough held back to keep us waiting for episode 8. How was I so disappointed?
Because every single fucking place on the interwebs has been "we won't spoil it for you, but you'll love it", thus effectively spoiling the film for us anyway.
I put this up on my G+ page;
I'd just like to to this moment to remind everybody that The Phantom Menace was well-received. It reviewed positively, and even received standing ovations at the midnight premieres. People even liked Jar-Jar Binks at first.
It was only after we cynical internet users were able to communicate our minor quibbles with each other that everything snowballed into the perception that the film was a load of stinking rubbish. Sure, the second two didn't do much (anything) to fix this perception, but nobody was really able to communicate their minor quibbles (and I think there probably would have been many) with the first Star Wars in such an open forum, back in 1977.
I don't think the prequels were as bad as everybody says. Sure, they weren't great works of cinematic storytelling, but then neither were the originals.
I think what really ruined the prequels wasn't so much George Lucas, but we; the internet commentators. The people who had minor gripes about something. We, who had impossibly high expectations based on imperfect recollections.
I'm not saying I didn't like The Force Awakens. I'm also not saying I'm in love with it.
All these "spoiler free" reviews going around are spoiling it in a much more fundamental way in my opinion; they're setting an expectation that you'll love the film. They may not be spoiling things in the manner of "Darth Vader is Princess Leia's father" but they are changing people's expectations just by indicating whether or not it's good or bad.
Just remember that Phantom Menace reviewed as "good" when it was first released.
My feelings exactly in regards to TFA and the prequels. Roger Ebert gave Phantom Menace 3.5 out of 4! I wouldn't go that far (I'd be more inclined to follow Leonard Maltin's reviews of the prequels) but if you see those Plinkett reviews where he picks on every minor fucking detail it's incredible and so pathetic! You'd think George Lucas had made Birdemic level films! Doesn't help that famous celebs (Simon Pegg plus every single person with a mic in front of them) took every opportunity to say they were extremely poor films. This film is not the 2nd coming. It couldn't possibly be. They were sort of my expectations going in and I was just shattered when it just copied a new hope. And the reason it so desperately tried to copy a new hope was to try get everyone to forget about "those awful prequels" and give them warm, fuzzy memories from there childhood. Yet these are KIDS films!
I can't seem to find the link on my phone at the moment but I saw a review of a Star Wars film on YouTube. Got horribly reviewed and in the review it was stated that it was too kiddy, had a horrible script, over 90% special effects, poorly acted and directed. Definitely wasn't fit for kids even though it was clearly aimed at kids. It was a scathing review. The film in question was.... The Empire Strikes Back.
I didn't like the prequels. I walked out of TPM saying "yeah, it was ok.." but in one of those kind of higher pitched voices than you normally use...trying to convince myself I liked seeing a movie about a little kid who would become Darth Vader. I didn't need the internet to tell me that I didn't like it. I was uncomfortable for the whole movie.
There are a couple of ways to look at it. And since Vince mentioned Plinkett, I'm going to rush to his defense. His reviews/ break downs of the prequel trilogy are generally insightful. his perspectives echo the vast majority of older original trilogy fans. In the end he sums it all up quite simply and I think it's the truest assessment of the prequels. We got a Darth Vader origin story spread out across three movies. Star wars was never about Darth Vader particularly. So if you liked the prequels then I can see why his views offend you. There isn't a little bit wrong with the prequels. There's a lot wrong. But if all you wanted was a Darth Vader origin series peppered with Star Warsy stuff, then you got what you wanted.
Star Wars isn't perfect but going into that is a waste of time. ROTJ is a pretty fucking terrible film. They have been built up to something they aren't. They're a bit corny. But no movies have really ever done what the trilogy had.
So my sense of TFA is that they've done exactly what George should have done with the prequels. They've given us something we're familiar with and gotten us comfortable with the new timeline and characters. Sure they seem to have skipped a fair bit of information about why the Republic needs a resistance or how the First Order has risen to significance but George did all that, and it was not well received. I'm guessing that the writers felt that the end game for this trilogy could afford a Death Star (Star killer base) 10 times the size of the last one we saw and be done with it within the first episode and not come close to the threat the First Order pose in future episodes. Kylo Ren needs to train and lick his wounds. So to get the old audience comfortable we get Han and Leia, the Millennium Falcon, some Force action, Han's death and a Death Star gets blown up. Audience is familiar, comfortable, engaged. We're not asked to like a protagonist that we can't like. Hands up who liked little Anakin. Hands up who liked Hayden's Anakin.
The prequels do actually have an audience. Due to the clone wars animated series apparently kids love Anakin. They're generally pretty shattered to find out he becomes Vader. But they're working from a different direction to the older fans. And to be honest, I doubt they ( the old fan base)really matter to the Star Wars money machine. The only way the franchise survives is to add fans to its base. 40 years since Star Wars...we'll be dead eventually. But the merch will be for sale long after most of us are gone. There's a generation who think the prequels are great and they see Star Wars positively from that perspective.
To be honest I think I'm grateful that they eased me into the new Star Wars. I liked the characters. They didn't kill off the villain in one episode. Everything doesn't look like a green screen. Light saber battles aren't some retarded ballet. They have weight. It's dangerous. Kylo Ren's lightsaber is nasty, half finished, unstable and angry- seemingly representative of Kylo Ren himself at that point of the story. I liked Kylo Ren. We thankfully get to ditch Harrison Ford (who gave an ace final performance as Han) and to be honest BB8 was a joy. Po was a fantastic addition. At no point did any of the prequel characters grow on me.
The difference between The Force Awakens and the prequels, or the similarity between TFA and the original trilogy is this. Star Wars, TESB, RoTJ and TFA (on initial impression) were made to please your inner child. As Plinkett points out, few children could sit through and understand the vast majority of the prequels. I think The Force Awakens completely addresses that.
So for me the original trilogy and the prequels weren't made in the same spirit. The prequels were made for children without taking into account the child. And anything positive that endures from the prequels is derived from the original trilogy. Anakin exists, so does Obiwan..but other than that..Padme?..what character was introduced that will matter? Maul? I think TFA manages to absolutely turn that around. Po, BB8, Rey, Finn, Kylo. You're looking at a pretty major expansion to the universe if these characters become widely accepted...and indications are they have been. They're all great characters within the context of a franchise that has been deified. It's a terrible shame that George couldn't do this himself. Perhaps after reading the theories on Jar Jar recently, had he been brave and kept to his vision, we'd be talking about the prequels differently.
I find it hard to criticise TFA for being fan service when it seems to have set out to be just that.
I've only seen it once. I felt Han Solo weighed the film down a little and I wasn't fond of Mas Canata. I also felt that the Star Killer Base went down way too easily and probably wasn't all that necessary but it didn't break the movie.
In my opinion, the prequels hurt the character they set out to glorify the most. Darth Vader seen as a precocious child, as a brooding, petulant teen didn't add weight to Vader. It took away his impact. We all knew Anakin was going to turn dark side. But when it happened there was no loss felt. We didn't love Anakin and if he had to be the focus, we should have loved him dearly by episode 3. His turn to the dark side should have mattered. It should have hurt us. It didn't. And really, a fight between Obiwan and Anakin wasn't enough. It should have taken an army of Jedi to take down young Skywalker, not a one on one. Hayden Christensen copped a bum deal. He could probably pull it off now, with age.
So back to TFA. Kylo worships his grandfather's burnt out helmet. Something in what he says alludes that Vader gave him some insight...or perhaps Snoke led Kylo to think as much. Either way, it seems to start adding some weight back to Vader. But that might not even factor into the following movies. I wouldn't expect to see Vader's helmet again. It's a nice touch. adds weight to Ren's character and again, familiarises the audience. With the direction of the first film, I could consider the inclusion of Christensen as possibly a positive thing.
People keep writing that Disney will want to distance themselves from the prequels but that doesn't make sense. That is a huge chunk of the existing franchise just ignored. I doubt that's in their plan. Clone Wars stuff sells. It's all connected to the prequels. All of it is potential revenue. It just depends how Disney want to swing it.
Who is your favourite character?
Mine has always been C-3PO but I consider myself Empire.
)
