The Force Awakens - 20 x better than the prequels!

[unfnknblvbl]

To be honest I think I'm grateful that they eased me into the new Star Wars. I liked the characters. They didn't kill off the villain in one episode.

This. I was pretty gutted when Darth Maul died. I wanted to see more of him. Count Dooku just felt tacked on. My biggest issue with the prequels (aside from the lame portrayal of Anakin in 2&3) was that they just kept killing off the baddies and replacing them with somebody lamer.

[ObSoLeTe]

Well thank-you Mr. Blow-the-picture-for-me.

there we go

[Vince]

Well said Cletus. My opinion is I don't think they're the major fuck ups everyone makes them out to be. Kids love the films, much like kids loved the OT. TFA just felt like it was missing something. It felt like it was trying to hard to capture that original trilogy spirit yet failed. I disagree with the memorable characters in TFa though. We are one movie in and it's been out for a week. Let's give it time before we start calling them memorable.

As for the criticism of seeing Darth Vader in the prequels, I admit it wasn't handled perfectly (everyone obviously has their own story on how Anaking becomes Darth Vader) but to say no one cared is just wrong. Before the prequels arrived people were salivating to see Darth as a kid and grow up to turn to Darth Vader. Once the film came out people started to say they never ever wanted that! I remember everyone going crazy when George Lucas appeared on the special edition VHS copies of the OT talking a little about the prequels and fans went nuts! It was hysteria! After they arrived though, those same fans supposedly never wanted them. It just st shits me to tears hearing people complain about something they wanted. And Plunkett's reviews are whiny and pathetic. Any normal person with enough time on their hands could do the same with the OT and TFA and rip them to shreds...

[GeneraL CyberFunK]

If I had a choice of having the prequels made... or Episode 7 being made.. I'd have picked episode 7 BUT with this said.. I loved The Force Awakens. It had what I wanted. I'm seeing it again on Thursday arvo.

As for it missing something? Hmmm I watched the originals and the prequels and something I noted was that Battlestar Galactica has kinda ruined me in that it was good fucking space drama. It was intelligent and serious and fucked up at times. Star Wars feels very light and fluffy and it's a case of my tastes maturing over time. The prequels I find pretty unbearable to watch... The originals I can watch but I can feel the limitations of it. I still look at them fondly though. The Force Awakens feels like a better movie in terms of what it brings and it had more grit and drama than previous ones.

[Vince]

Further to what I'd written, you could make a very strong argument that the prequels are more about Palpatine and his rise to power. Certainly changed my perspective of him in the OT. But look, I understand people not liking the prequels. I just can't understand the fervent hatred.

[stanard]

I think the one thing lacking from TFA is the lack of world building and scale. The OT (in particular ANH) and the prequels did that incredibly well. One of the reviews I saw of TFA hit the nail on the head by saying that by wanting to avoid the main mistake that the prequels made of explaining everything, it went just that little bit too far in the other direction. Just a bit more exposition was needed - ANH had that balance just perfectly.

The prequels hate I can mostly understand - what I don't get is the constant hate for ROTJ. Sure the Ewoks taking down the Stormtroopers was kinda lame, but they were still fun and as a kid I LOVED them. Nowhere near Jar Jar level of annoying. What else is there to complain about? The space battle is the best of all 7 movies, Luke vs Vader vs Palps, escape from Jabba's palace...the Speeder Bikes chase! All brilliant moments.

It seems cooler nowadays to rate ROTS above ROTJ. Get fucked.

[lestat]

Further to what I'd written, you could make a very strong argument that the prequels are more about Palpatine and his rise to power. Certainly changed my perspective of him in the OT. But look, I understand people not liking the prequels. I just can't understand the fervent hatred.

Yep the original trilogy didn't shed much light on the emperor, the prequels really painted how much of clever manipulator/strategist he was to overthrow the republic and destroy the Jedi, establish the clone army right under the republics nose. Anakin is merely a pawn in all this. Story wise I don't think there is a lot wrong with the movies, the problems arise from the poor directing and performances, this is where George should have gotten someone else to direct.

Also I think George chose to do the prequels because the story line is more interesting, the jedi in their glory, the politics, the rise of the sith. JJ will be tested in the second movie, I think people are dismissing the fact story wise this new movie is a complete rip off of episode 4 and so far I can't see how they're going to take this forward with an exciting outcome we haven't seen before. It's looking like a redemption family story line again. Not surprising considering this is all hollywood does now, reboot old stories.

[stanard]

Rian Johnson is directing EP 8, not JJ.

I agree that the overall storyline of the prequels was pretty good, but they were just handled so, so poorly.

[Cletus]

It seems cooler nowadays to rate ROTS above ROTJ. Get fucked.

That is bullshit. None of the prequels are anywhere near as enjoyable as RoTJ. That said if pressed, I tend to say there are two great Star Wars films. I didn't love RoTJ as I got older but loved it as a kid. My fondness for Star Wars took a hit for a while after the prequels. To be honest I think I was ashamed of something I'd loved so dearly for almost my entire living memory. But after a while my love for the original two came back. I think my disregard for RoTJ is still a remnant of the Prequel hurt. And I completely agree. It's part of the point I'm making. RoTJ was made in the same spirit as the two before it. It does have memorable moments. Elements from RoTJ make up part of the Star Wars universe.

And Vince, you're missing my point. Of course the audience wanted to see Anakin turn dark side. Just not the way George told it. If you think Palpatine is the focus then fine. Then I can argue Jar Jar is the focus. You can argue back that the Trade Federation politics is the focus and I can argue that Obiwan or Padme is the focus. But what the audience will remember is that episode 1 is about kid anakin, episode 2 is about something and episode 3 is about Anakin becoming Dark Fader. Well that's what most of the audience remembers. They also remember Jar Jar, unfortunately. Some might remember Yoda doing a lightsaber fight. And that would have been ok if it worked. You're not wrong to like them, but you're on an island in a sea of fans that didn't. What I doubt you'll see from Plinkett is a prequel styled review of TFA. I doubt it comes close to warranting the scrutiny. Plus I've already watched their spoiler review. They liked it. Plinkett won't be ripping this apart any time soon. Whiney? They don't come off that way to me...but I agree with most of his points. I wouldn't say it shits me to tears when I hear the odd person try to defend the prequels and to be honest I've never seen (granted they may exist) a positive review for the films. I'd say I just tend to nod slowly, like I'm considering what they're saying. It's a device I use to seem considerate. And once again, missing the point. The original trilogy is completely flawed. It's not about that. Of course anyone could rip them apart. But it'd amount to a whino standing nude on a box in a busy street wanking himself. It'd be regarded as clickbait. Only a mental would claim that they are flawless. If anything you're going to struggle selling the idea that many of the flaws in the OT aren't also part of the reason those films endure. Anyone could rip them apart, but there's no point. The funny thing by the way, is that one of the most enduring things about the prequels will actually be Plinkett's reviews.

[guttermouth]

I fucken love ROTJ, like mentioned before just so many great Star Wars moments.

But out of all those changes Lucas done with the originals, the shit he did with that band in Jabbas palace would have to be the worst of them, I want Max Reebo back!!!!!

One thing with the prequels is that the special effects just don't hold up, they have aged badly. It's amazing that the effects in the original still look better than the prequels.

[unfnknblvbl]

I was just thinking that last night. I watched Episodes 1 & 2 and even Episode 1 doesn't look as bad as Episode 2. There are some moments where the greenscreening is obvious as anything; any time where characters are in front of a window, for instance. It's pretty awful. Practical effects FTW.

Also, Aunt Beru is pretty hot.

[t0mby]

Of course the originals hold up.

[GreyWizzard]

Film overstays its welcome, they should have ended it with Rey taking off to find Luke. It's also mostly just outlandish action sequences with zero character development. The only character I got to know was Kylo Renn, everyone else... fuck knows it's an action sequence.

Eps IV, and V have the perfect balance of action sequences and character development / dialogue.

It's an okay film.

[GreyWizzard]

Also, what's the deal with killing a planet full of kidnapped brainwashed innocent people?

[Vince]

It seems cooler nowadays to rate ROTS above ROTJ. Get fucked.

That is bullshit. None of the prequels are anywhere near as enjoyable as RoTJ. That said if pressed, I tend to say there are two great Star Wars films. I didn't love RoTJ as I got older but loved it as a kid. My fondness for Star Wars took a hit for a while after the prequels. To be honest I think I was ashamed of something I'd loved so dearly for almost my entire living memory. But after a while my love for the original two came back. I think my disregard for RoTJ is still a remnant of the Prequel hurt. And I completely agree. It's part of the point I'm making. RoTJ was made in the same spirit as the two before it. It does have memorable moments. Elements from RoTJ make up part of the Star Wars universe.

And Vince, you're missing my point. Of course the audience wanted to see Anakin turn dark side. Just not the way George told it. If you think Palpatine is the focus then fine. Then I can argue Jar Jar is the focus. You can argue back that the Trade Federation politics is the focus and I can argue that Obiwan or Padme is the focus. But what the audience will remember is that episode 1 is about kid anakin, episode 2 is about something and episode 3 is about Anakin becoming Dark Fader. Well that's what most of the audience remembers. They also remember Jar Jar, unfortunately. Some might remember Yoda doing a lightsaber fight. And that would have been ok if it worked. You're not wrong to like them, but you're on an island in a sea of fans that didn't. What I doubt you'll see from Plinkett is a prequel styled review of TFA. I doubt it comes close to warranting the scrutiny. Plus I've already watched their spoiler review. They liked it. Plinkett won't be ripping this apart any time soon. Whiney? They don't come off that way to me...but I agree with most of his points. I wouldn't say it shits me to tears when I hear the odd person try to defend the prequels and to be honest I've never seen (granted they may exist) a positive review for the films. I'd say I just tend to nod slowly, like I'm considering what they're saying. It's a device I use to seem considerate. And once again, missing the point. The original trilogy is completely flawed. It's not about that. Of course anyone could rip them apart. But it'd amount to a whino standing nude on a box in a busy street wanking himself. It'd be regarded as clickbait. Only a mental would claim that they are flawless. If anything you're going to struggle selling the idea that many of the flaws in the OT aren't also part of the reason those films endure. Anyone could rip them apart, but there's no point. The funny thing by the way, is that one of the most enduring things about the prequels will actually be Plinkett's reviews.

That's fine. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions on ANY Star Wars films. I originally saw the prequel trilogy as the story of dark vayda. Slowly it dawned on me that the real villain and centrepiece was Palpatine. You could never argue the story was about jar jar, or the trade federation or anything like that. The story focused on 3 characters- Obi Wan, Anakin and Palpatine. The way it's handled wasn't fantastic at all, but the amount of constant hate is quite baffling to me.

I will say this- I'm an original trilogy man myself. Grew up with them and loved them throughout my entire life. Changes or not, they're timeless classics. When George Lucas made his prequels he did them his way. He didn't really pander to what anyone wanted. He had a clear vision and stuck with it. JJ Abrams, for as talented as he is (and he is pretty damn talented) was so intent on erasing the prequels from our minds he took his love for the original trilogy too far. There's hardly anything original in all of force awakens. It's all there to get people to feel nostalgic again. But once that wears off I think people will see a film that is a carbon copy of the originals with nary a solid, original idea. Like I said, I enjoyed it and rate it above the prequels but it falls well well WELL short of the OT...

[GreyWizzard]

Agreeing a lot with Vince. TFA didn't feel overly original.

Here's a droid carrying an important message.
Here's a desert planet.
Here's an ice planet.
Here are planets getting destroyed by some death star like planet.
Here's a forest planet.
Here's x-wings making runs on death star like planet.


It took too many queues from the original trilogy and made very little new content.

[lestat]

Film overstays its welcome, they should have ended it with Rey taking off to find Luke. It's also mostly just outlandish action sequences with zero character development. The only character I got to know was Kylo Renn, everyone else... fuck knows it's an action sequence.

Nothing builds character like a lot of heavy panting, didn't you know that?

[unfnknblvbl]

Film overstays its welcome, they should have ended it with Rey taking off to find Luke.

This. That coda shouldn't have been there. They could have made a whole TV series about Rey's journey to find Luke to fill the gap between now and the next film coming out, or they could have just stuck it near the start of the next film.

[t0mby]

Agreeing a lot with Vince. TFA didn't feel overly original.

Here's a droid carrying an important message.
Here's a desert planet.
Here's an ice planet.
Here are planets getting destroyed by some death star like planet.
Here's a forest planet.
Here's x-wings making runs on death star like planet.


It took too many queues from the original trilogy and made very little new content.

So the universe is only allowed one sand planet, one snow planet and one forest planet now? Pah-lease. Sounds like you just want to hate it.

I really enjoyed it, even if it was nostalgic. I have very find memories of seeing the OT when they first released and I have zero fond memories of the PT, they got better but they still didn't feel like they fitted into the SW universe apart from the force and lightsabers. The tech didn't fit it, the ships looked shit but it's good to see 30 years on the Rebels still use X-wings after ROTJ. Why didn't the Empire still have the same Star Destroyers after ROTS?

[GameHED]

Saw the movie. It had no real soul of its own.

It had all the right ingredients and ticked all the boxes for making the OT fan happy but I felt ripped off.

The prequel Trilogy still added stuff new like faster and more intense light saber duels where Jedi have nothing to fear and dogmatic about their religion to a point where it kinda feels sickening. I can understand anakin on that level: When you were a teen and told you couldn't be an adult and rebel against orders but another adult in a high status position tells you it's ok so you listen to it because it sounds cool to you. Your own teacher tells you that you are not allowed to be impulsive even though HIS teacher broke from tradition by ordering him to train you.

If I were anakin I love to kill annoying kids trying to prevent me being boss of my own destiny. You have the highest amount of midi clorens so why not let me be narcissistic? The force has a will of its own. Evil exists because weak people don't question whether they are in obedience to what the force wants vs what they want.

The Sith just had to apply just the right pressure in just the right place to get the young guy to defect and that's how you transform republic into dictatorship: appeal to people's emotions rather than reason and logic. Tell them hey are awesome and they need to cut ties with hypocrites and you win.

The PQ were not about the individual characters (that was just filler to added coolness to the movie) but about how a republic fails. (you rely on a system of rules to govern things which are just there to guide you, and not rely on the HEART) It is the individuals who react emotionally to events that allows them to give up freedoms and this is the whole theme of Yoda's speech about how fear leading to anger etc. Yoda was right to tell Qui Gon to not train him because he is too old and he is impulsive. (making him weak to manipulation by smart guys who will trap them)

The guys who have no control lose thier shit and get angry rather than looking rationally at problems and trusting in logic.
Note how Yoda tells Luke that he CAN'T save his friends in the OT. That might seem silly to the emotional people but it's true. If you are fighting to win a war you got to let the guys do their job and you do your job and two jobs get done. When Luke didn't listen to Yoda, he ended up doing something that set him back. That time was wasted could have been used to build his power up to learn to become stronger in connection with the force so that he was ready to shield himself from Jedi mind tricks that the Sith will use to persuade and seduce him to go Dark.

The force is about mastery of your self. The Sith are powerless when you are not merely reacting to the event but already planning in advance how to use the events to your advantage. The Force has a will of its own. If you tap into the power and let it guide you, rather than you listening to your fears and reacting to emotions like an animal, then bad guys can't manipulate you like a hunter baiting you into traps.

That's what I liked about PQ. (it's about the con games)

It was corny but it added something new. Jar Jar was the only really annoying stuff that was put there so kids would not get bored.

With this movie I feel like it was aimed at older audience but played it too safe. It wanted money, not the respect of trying to expand the universe into new areas.

All they had to do was show us how the galaxy changed post empire's fall and show new bad guys (not related to Jedi) so that when we see jedi we can feel that there is a purpose for them to exist after triumphing over the evil in the past.

Perhaps show us a more grey Star Wars universe where the Force is no longer mystical but science has allowed people to see it through a technology which scans living things. This acts as a way for a supremcist movement to emerge and the jedi now have to deal with cults who want to kill off all the non-religious people in society to have a utopia and Luke is under pressure to be the leader and must fight extremists. (remember when imperials made fun of Vader in OT and called his faith in the Force "a Sad religion"? Well the opposite of this would be people who are religious extremists who mistreat anyone who isn't like them. A character like Magneto in the X-men movies but for star wars could be one example. Basically using mutants to act as an army to create a dictatorship. In star wars it would be Dark Jedi trying to convince Luke that everyone that hunted Jedi down must be eliminated for jedi to survive and for there not to have another Jedi Massacre ever again.

Politics is boring to kids but kids like kid characters. Just make sure the kid isn't annoying that's all. We are all just big kids watching this shit. It's whether or not it's cool, it's edgy, and it's not cashing in on old glory that matters.
The moral of the story in star wars is you want to kill bad guys by converting them to good. Not use physical attacks. Those bad guys could be you. Evil is like a gas that expands and you inhale it into your nostrils and get infected by it. Do you exterminate all the infected or call a doctor to heal the sick? That's what OT was about. PT was just the explanation for the clone wars and who obi wan really was and how the good people could be perverted to become evil by seduction. It's the fall in the garden of eden. The need to obtain more power to solve problems rather than trusting in common sense logic. (you can't solve ALL problems of evil through being the better fighter. It's the same thing in King Arthur legends. When they ask Merlin "where hides evil?" The knights think they have conquered all the bad in the world but it's right in front of them in the form of secret temptation to do wrong. ie Lancelot betraying the king and pretending to be a good guy but he is going around doing bad things in secret.
This is the weakness that evil men exploit because they themselves know it can be used to gain power and control over large masses of people by showing them their reflection and if the person is not willing to listen to truth and repent, the evil get more powerful and the good guy loses control over his own behaviour. Anakin is basically you. That's why we can care about him. He is fallen being so we identify with it.

But in this movie I saw the female be better in everything the men were good at.

It's just not realistic imo. She is a better mechanic the Han, Better pilot thant that hispanic guy. She can wield lightsaber better than the black guy who looks physically more fit and strong and healthy than the girl.

You guys were tricked into believing you were going to see a guy flick but they baited you and you fell for it and ended up seeing a female empowerment movie.

A movie where the men are emasculated and goofy (han knowing less about ships than a slave girl in a desert with no education and experience) weak and cowardly ( the black guy who pretty much is useless throughout the whole thing and didn't grow or go on meaningful journey) and emo. (the bad guy who cries WTF!!?!?! Why should we care if he is the villain if he can't even use jedi mind trick on a weak girl?) IT"S JUST UNREALISTIC. Even luke the hero of a new hope, actually had to work very hard to focus his mind and faith muscle to get his force powers good enough to be combat reliable. This new heroine has NO FLAWS and INSTANTLY KNOW EVERYTHING so why the fuck do we care about Luke Skywalker if she is better? You see what they did? They made a person that should be weak and inexperienced stronger than the character that is supposedly a legendary hero who took down an empire.

Hopefully they learn to develop more interesting character for the next movie becuase I felt like vomiting throughout this whole movie. No male characters for a little boy who watches it to look up to. Little boys should just avoid this and may as well watch hunger games not this lol

Even when the black guy (the white knight in Stormtrooper armor) genuinely has no interest in sex and grabs the girl hand to help her. the feminist bitch tells him to fuck off and stop helping. He was friend zoned and because he is nice he gets punished for it. Sick movie.


I'm sorry guys but Lucas movies are better than Abrams. Not because the quality is better but because it had a soul. Something that suggested it was a movie with some identity of its own. I get it, it's a business and disney bought it to print money. But you can have your cake and eat it. Make sure the movie has good characters people feel are real enough to believe. (Luke right in the beginning of A New Hope didn't automatically know so much. He is an average guy like you and me and that's why we as litle boys can identify with him. You can't do that with the heroine in this movie thanks to idiotic people in hollwyood not caring about fans and giving into radical feminist and SJWs.

Yes I will see the next one as a fan of Sci Fi movie and fantasy in general. But I get more joy watching animes and foreign stuff now. People actually have to develop skill over time and learn from mistakes and you care how the next fight goes as you are emotionally invested into it.

[Cletus]

I hope they need to use Bespin quite frankly. I don't care about Daggobah. But they're pretty limited in providing locations that haven't been done and can be used as a backdrop for human and alien characters. In Star Wars almost everything seems to require the same basic elements to survive. Naboo was a forest planet to begin with. Then it's a water world. Then it's palatial. Coruscant was kind of a bigger version of Cloud City anyway. I still think making a Hoth styled super Death Star wasn't necessary but it wasn't even the main focus of this film. Actually one would hope by now that the Empire (FO) takes the hint on planet styled weapons of mass destruction. And I think (hope) that as mentioned, they only included it this time because they could afford to waste it in the first episode. As for Rey flying off and finding Luke, I think there might have been too much expectation for Luke to be in this film and so we were thrown a bone and given some sense of the direction for episode 8.

Totes agree with Tomby here too. One of the things that bothers me about the prequels is the ships. Everything is new and shiny and completely out of character to the stuff we're used to. It should have been brand new X wings so by the time we get to ANH, it makes sense why everything looks old and used. In TFA we see them using tried and tested ship models that were old thirty years ago and managed to do the job. All of those new ships in the prequels should be the old ships in the OT. The only ones who have new ships are the Empire, because they can afford it...and they keep getting their arse handed to them.

[GreyWizzard]

I enjoyed the film but it has issues. It feels more like fan service than an original film.

[Cletus]

Oh it's fan service.

[Megaman]

It was kind of like this year's Wrestlemania when they wheeled out all the old wrestlers. It was cheesy but I loved it.

One thing that's been annoying me is the way the movie withholds information from you just for the sake of it. In the originals, the viewer discovers things as Luke and the others discover them. Here Rey obviously knows more about her origin, who she's waiting for on Jakku, but they just don't tell us. Han and Leia obviously know more about how Ben became Kylo, about who Snoke is, but they just don't talk about it during the course of the movie. C3PO holds up his red arm and basically says 'wouldn't you like to know how I got this'. I realise it's just so they can have more 'big reveals' later, but it's all a bit artificial compared to how it was done in the OT.

[GreyWizzard]

The issue with Rey is that she is a Mary Sue, the character who is more like a fan has been plonked into the film. She interacts with all the old characters and she automatically knows how to do everything and is able to easily defeat the bad guy. It sucks for the viewer because it creates more questions, how did she know how to use mind control like Obi Wan without seeing anyone else do it? Did she know because I've seen previous films and know it's a thing?

I like Rey, but found her too predictable because she seemed outside of the film.

I wish the film was more stand alone than an obvious chapter in a larger story.

Anyone else understand the hate for Kylo? I felt he was the most compelling and interesting character in the film. He was like a broken kid who takes a gun to school. His skating on the edge of light and dark was great, very believable and often made scenes with him intense. I can wait to see more of his journey and struggle with the force

Crylo Ren... Fuckers...