Coronavirus thread

[Ambrose Burnside]

How's the Weak Cunt in the West, fucks over countless people and businesses by being a bitch and cancelling the Feb 5th date, only to extend by less than a month.

"The new Health Advice"

Your definition of strong/not being a "bitch" is fucked in the head.

New advice? At the time of the delay the CHO recommended ... We reopen when we will (based purely on booster numbers, at that point in time we had no idea when the east would "peak" as cases/hospitalisations/deaths were still increasing at that point in time).

The benefit of booster shots across the population of Western Australia would start to be offset by waning vaccine protection rates at the end of March, according to advice from the state’s Chief Health Officer to Premier Mark McGowan.

The advice, published online Friday afternoon but signed on Wednesday, underpinned the government’s decision to hold off on a February 5 date for reopening but indicates WA could reach 75 per cent booster coverage by March 2.

Back on 21/01/22

Disclaimer: I was going to have a crack no matter the date.

Yeah no shit. He's a Labor politician.

So what the hell is this 75% boosted number based off? Everything was 90% before... call it for what it is: arbitrary bullshit.

It wasn't a target, it's the prediction for what the rate will be when the borders open (which Omicron made redundant).

[Madmya]

I know it's not a target, just pointing out that they're making it up as they go along.

Anyway, no one cares about the pandemic anymore. It's all about national security.

[stanard]

And all the simps will fall for it

[Madmya]

Hahah, reducing anyone who cares more about national security than the pandemic to 'simps'. Wow.

[Ambrose Burnside]

Simps or bitchboys and weak cunts, what's the difference?

[Madmya]

Well I was singling out an individual based on decisions made in the past in present as opposed to blanketing a massive portion of the population. Just a little difference.

Not only an individual but a leader, who is subject to criticism for their actions.

[Ambrose Burnside]

Unless they're ScoMo

[Madmya]

The main point I've been trying to push, Ambrose, is to provide an argument for your grievances rather than just wheeling out keywords without substance.

[Ambrose Burnside]

I don't really have any grievances cos I don't live in NSW or Victoria.

I know you're governed by a communist dictatorship over there in Queensland, and I do sympathise, but you guys have come out of this quite well too compared to those dirty southerners.

[Madmya]

How are we any different from NSW?

Well I guess we did avoid the delta wave, which was good. But as of right now we're really in the same position.

[Ambrose Burnside]

By any measure you care to name really. Cases, deaths, days in lockdown, number of premiers deposed etc.

Avoiding og Wuhan strain and delta strain are massive wins.

[Madmya]

Right, you're speaking across the 2 years rather than our immediate position. Yes, we're better than both NSW and Victoria, despite the latter being the most locked down in the world.

[stanard]

Hahah, reducing anyone who cares more about national security than the pandemic to 'simps'. Wow.

That's not really what I meant, just that people will fall for the narrative and discount all the other fuck ups by Morrison.

Probably the same people that think the Libs are better economic managers.

[Madmya]

You're right, the better economic managers are the leaders who shut down schools for 1.5 days because there might be storms, creating unnecessary chaos for workers and business.

Anastasia needs to get out of our lives.

McGowan masking 7 year olds... seems on point. Weak.

[Ambrose Burnside]

[WA's] active caseload now stands at just under 10,000 [21 in hospital]

By the same point of its Omicron outbreak – 10,000 active cases – South Australia had 74 in hospital (four in ICU, one of whom was ventilated).

Queensland had 11,600 active cases on December 31, at which point 64 people were in hospital and one was in ICU.

Seems delaying the border reopening by 4 weeks to get booster rates from 4% to 64% is having the intended effect.

Your definition of weak is still fucked in the head.

[Madmya]

Double vaccination gives fuck all protection against Omicron, so it's not a surprise that a more boosted population is going to have better numbers. BUT hospitalisation numbers is a weak metric because it's arbitrary, and there was a lot more concern about getting omicron at the start than there is now. ICU and ventilator use is better, so yes you've fucked over many to stop a couple of people going into ICU. Bravo. I was referring to the masking of 7 year olds anyway, and if you do have a highly boosted population, what exactly is the point of doing it?

He's going the weak option every time, because he's weak. And a cunt. Hence, weak cunt.

[t0mby]

Pfizers documents have been released. Pretty shocking but not surprising given their history. Can see why it took the courts to get them released when Pfizer wanted to wait till 2075.

https://www.icandecide.org/pfizer-documents/

Events data. Of particular interest is page 30 - 39

https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/20 ... rience.pdf

[Ambrose Burnside]

Double vaccination gives fuck all protection against Omicron, so it's not a surprise that a more boosted population is going to have better numbers. BUT hospitalisation numbers is a weak metric because it's arbitrary, and there was a lot more concern about getting omicron at the start than there is now. ICU and ventilator use is better, so yes you've fucked over many to stop a couple of people going into ICU. Bravo. I was referring to the masking of 7 year olds anyway, and if you do have a highly boosted population, what exactly is the point of doing it?

He's going the weak option every time, because he's weak. And a cunt. Hence, weak cunt.

Fuck me everything is arbitrary. Vaccination numbers, hospitalisation numbers. Anything else? What can we use as a measure of effectiveness that isn't arbitrary to you?

What is a strong leader in your view? The opposite to McGowan? Let 'er rip? Do tell. Who has done better during this pandemic and why?

At a guess I'll say NSW. And South Australia. Tassie too. Despite performing worse than WA on every metric that matters.

Palaszczuk bad because she closed schools. McGowan bad because he's keeping them open (albeit with masks for 4 weeks (March) as we navigate the peak). Boo Labor.

[Madmya]

I mean I spelt it out right there, ICU and ventilator use is better.

There was a lot of uncertainty throughout this pandemic so I think all leaders deserve some leniency. QLD has become very strong since the appointment of John Gerrard, and honestly I think we're at the top of the pile when it comes to the virus response now. Credit where it's due, it was a great appointment by QLD ALP. But Mark fucking McGowan has had the benefit of seeing it all unfold everywhere else first. He was all about vaccination targets, 80%, 90%, whatever, but suddenly a week before the AFL starts 75% is good enough. He's masking 7 year olds and you still didn't answer what logic this might be based on. There's no strength in his leadership. Victoria, Queensland and New South Wales have all shown far more strength than he has.

I'll leave the Palasczczcuacuk closing schools comment alone, it wasn't in relation to covid - she closed schools halfway through thursday and all of friday because the Bureau of Meterology predicted severe storms (which didn't eventuate). My comment was in response to stanard alone.

[Ambrose Burnside]

When did he say 80-90% booster rates was the goal? Never. 90% was the goal for two doses when Delta was the primary strain. The goal shifted when Omicron emerged. Remember the timing? Border reopening was delayed the day before NSW's deaths hit a new pandemic record for Australia. We were in peak (lol) unknown territory when it came to Omicron. And as you've said, you need to be boosted for Omicron. We went from 4% to 64% when the borders reopened. And they didn't reopen when we hit 75% (wat? We still haven't hit that) because of the AFL season (wat), we reopened because Omicron was already here thanks to the brothel blowout, and local cases were dwarfing returned travellers (which, shock horror! were still arriving throughout). The situation changed, so the approach changed.

You haven't answered the question on strength either. Since the start of the pandemic you've been calling McGowan weak. When we had no lockdowns or masks or anything while pretty much the entire eastern seaboard was locked down tighter than a nun's snatch you were calling him weak. When 60k were packing out Optus maskless at the Grand Final? McGowan was weak. Bizarre this obsession you have with him.

Masks in schools? I dunno. If it stops teachers having to take time off then that's good. Will it be effective? Dunno. It's a 4 week thing. But if that's your main issue then yeah. Not much else to say. But wanting to keep schools open during Omicron does conflict with your old LoCkDoWn AfTeR oNe CaSe claim.

[Madmya]

No I agree with you, he didn't say that there was ever a specific target with booster shots. That's kinda what I'm getting at, he was very strict about meeting targets, now suddenly it's *this date just before the AFL starts* which is apparently good enough. I got from you that 75% was the expected booster status at that point. It's inconsistent. I do acknowledge the situation has changed but it hadn't at the start.

If he had any strength in his leadership he would have seen that omicron is mild to most of the population, and the booster rates really only matter to the vulnerable population. He had a lot of time to get aged care boosted, and anyone who is immunocompromised should have the sense to see themselves vaccinated at the earliest time possible. He should have realised that he's hurting many people by keeping his borders closed, and that it was on him to get the most vulnerable boosted so that he wouldn't fuck over people any more than he already has. But he did fuck them over anyway, and took the easy option.

I think me calling him weak is a much more recent thing, but I've certainly been calling him a bitch for a long time. Locking down an entire city for an entire week for one case... yep, that'll do it!

Masks in schools is overkill. But again, it's him going the weakest and easiest option rather than showing some backbone and looking at what happened in QLD when it wasn't mandatory.

[Ambrose Burnside]

Who are these many people that he's fucked over? The people who voted for him in the biggest landslide ever based on his pandemic management, or the people from over east complaining that they can't come to WA when they never have before? And still won't I take those complaints with an Uluru-sized grain of salt.

I acknowledge there have been unfortunate cases (funerals, meeting grandkids etc), but they are dwarfed by what the impact would have been of unleashing Wuhan and Delta. Look at what Melbourne endured, and Sydney to a lesser degree.

Would 100% take a 3 day lockdown here and a 5 day lockdown there if it means avoiding what Melbourne and Sydney endured. WA's lockdowns weren't as strict as other states either (kebabs and there's never been a ban on dancing or any sort of work from home order. I've continued my daily 2 hour public transport commute throughout the pandemic regardless of lockdown status). I still find that a crazy definition of "bitch". And we haven't had any sort of lockdown for at least 12 months (not sure when the last one was so I could be slightly off). They're an unvaccinated population, Delta-era thing of the past.

Omicron? Like I said when he announced the (4 week) delay, we didn't know how mild Omicron was, or how effective the vaccines were. Again, new records for daily deaths were being set every day when the delay was announced and Health Dept modelling was being done during that time using (pretty much) live data coming in from other states. Conclusion once enough data had been gathered and it became clear that a "peak" had been reached (again, peak hadn't been reached when delay was announced)? Highly vaccinated population should be OK, and opening the borders shouldn't impact things given Omicron was already here. This is all publicly available. Like, this is exactly what should be happening, decisions made based on the evidence. And for that you call him a weak bitch

His response hasn't been perfect, bickering with other states (all Premiers guilty) and so forth, but the metrics most people care about (regardless of how "arbitrary" you find them): hospitalisations, ICU, deaths, economic impact, etc have all been minimised, and that's been due to a highly vaccinated population (as much as mandates make me uncomfortable philosophically, they're the only way we could have hit such high numbers without enduring Melbourne and Sydney style outbreaks, such is human nature), and keeping Wuhan and Delta out.

Most WA politicians of all stripes are conservative by nature, and McGowan has been no different in his pandemic management. I do find it amusing you equate that with weakness given your political leanings.

PS: Queensland's original CHO who demonised the fuck out of AZ was crazy.

PPS: Vaccination rates and "inconsistency". 90% 12+ double-dosed target was based on the modelled impact of Delta. At this stage we had no local cases, and every day were were seeing positive cases of returned travellers (and the odd leak from hotel quarantine, hence the 3 and 5 day lockdowns). When Omicron emerged, the 90% target became less relevant, and the focus became boosters. A target wasn't set because it was clear very early how transmissible it was, but as deaths are a lagging indicator, it wasn't yet clear how deadly it was. There was always the possibility it could establish itself regardless of border measures given that transmissibility. The expectation was we'd hit 70% by the time the border opened. In the end expectations and targets became moot as Omicron established itself locally, and the borders were opened because there was no point to keeping them closed any more. That's why "whatever we hit was good enough" (64% in the end), when local cases are in the thousands and returned travellers are barely hitting double digit positive cases (again, highly vaccinated population of returned travellers, and peak reached interstate), there was no point to a border any more. That's not being inconsistent, that's acknowledging the reality of the situation, and adapting accordingly. Again, exactly what you want, not a stubborn approach that ignores reality.

[Froggy]

Having the spread start before he opened borders just showed he was delaying the inevitable. Extra hardship based on pseudo science that WA could avoid what the entire world's gone through if he could somehow get some mythical triple vax target for a vaccine that does sweet fuck all to Omicron infections. Now your dealing with restrictions etc what a shit show.

Doing victory laps about hospitalisation numbers now is too early too as triple vax will get it and die at some point there but has anywhere had Omicron get anywhere near these ridiculous hospital projections? All the inflicted pain to end up in the same place you'd have been at months ago or more.

The fucking masks during this entire thing, a complete unscientific shit show as well as all the other invented science like social distancing should forever be purged from any further response to a pandemic if the adults get back in charge of the scientific community again after this. I just laugh at parents sending their kids to school with masks with mine, it's only hurting their children and if anything more than likely to infect themselves with some gastro bug from their own hands.

[Madmya]

A lot of what you wrote makes sense, Ambrose, but the main issue I have is regarding this:

Omicron? Like I said when he announced the (4 week) delay, we didn't know how mild Omicron was, or how effective the vaccines were.

We knew it was mild, we had been talking about its mildness for quite a while at that point in time. While you can reasonably argue we didn't know how mild it was, we still knew it was mild and a stronger leader would have made decisions based on that. He took the ultra-conservative approach, too conservative, which I find amusing given your political leanings.

[Madmya]

Also, regarding hospitalisations as a legitimate metric, it is fine to be used for comparative purposes. But you do need to be careful, when you're comparing 20 in 10k and 60 in 12k, the thresholds for hospitalisation suddenly become extremely sensitive to the outcome.