questions regarding eBay

GreyWizzard · Post by **GreyWizzard** » 18 Jul 2006 02:23 pm

I'll ask my housemate to buy what I want for me, and then put the money in his account. Seems the easiest solution for now.

mxlegend99 · Post by **mxlegend99** » 18 Jul 2006 02:44 pm

amba wrote:I use deliberately different email addresses and passwords for Ebay and Paypal and have had no problem with any fraud. In fact, my Paypal password is different to any other password I have anywhere. An added benefit is when you get those Paypal spams, you know straight away what it is.

In short: Paypal is good for buyers, convenient but annoying for sellers.

I need help with a password, what did you choose?

Ekin · Post by **Ekin** » 18 Jul 2006 03:42 pm

You can setup paypal to direct debit your account if you dont have a CC but this might not be as safe.

ebe · Post by **ebe** » 18 Jul 2006 04:28 pm

The other benefit for PayPal is being able to select your delivery address at places like Lik-Sang, where they only let you have one address on file, and it has to match your CC billing address.

There was no point having a large box of gaming peripherals delivered to that address at the time since noone was home during the day.

Only problem was having to verify my bank and address details before Lik-Sang would ship. But that only took about a week for online transfers and postal mail, and I got a free $0.25 out of it

Hrm... a million PayPal accounts x account validation deposit = PROFIT!

Ambrose Burnside · Post by **Ambrose Burnside** » 18 Jul 2006 08:22 pm

mx blames eBay but he uses Internet Explorer and the rest of his security efforts/knowledge is no doubt just as shit.

username: username
password: password

vision · Post by **vision** » 18 Jul 2006 08:26 pm

mxlegend99 wrote:Fucked if i know. I just know it happened. Either someone guessed the password (doubt it, wasn't really straightforward). Someone had access to passwords. Or it was hacked.

When i bought stuff of eBay with PayPal, i don't recall having to use a password other then my eBay account password. That was ages ago though. So it could've changed or i could just be forgetting.

And insured or not. It's too much fucking around I want to sell shit on eBay but don't have a credit card to do so. My shitty Commonwealth account doesn't have Internet Banking and i'm too lazy to do what it requires to enable it(or even look up how i do that)

Sounds like someone got suckered by phishing attempts.

pubba · Post by **pubba** » 18 Jul 2006 08:48 pm

I got phished once.. Cant believe I was so stupid..

It was a fake 'complaint' by a suppose buyer and it was whilst I had some things for sale, so I clicked on 'reply now' within the email, and stupidly entered my account login on the official looking website..

Next thing I know, ebay had frozen my account because the dodgey prick was selling superbowl tickets under my account name. Got heaps of emails asking me about the 'bowl tickets' and i thought wtf??

Credit to ebay though - they recognised something strange was happening and after chatting on the phone with a rep (they called me from the US) they reinstated my account.

Thats one bad experience and over 600 transactions. Not too bad i guess

GreyWizzard · Post by **GreyWizzard** » 18 Jul 2006 08:51 pm

This is the weird thing... I have sent pictures of my credit card across the internet once so I could buy porn... yet I have issues with eBay and Paypal.

selfish · Post by **selfish** » 18 Jul 2006 10:23 pm

ahahahahah
also pictures wtf?

westical · Post by **westical** » 18 Jul 2006 10:30 pm

People pay for porn?

And Mx, get your own credit card ya sook.

BOOMY · Post by **BOOMY** » 19 Jul 2006 03:24 pm

mx blames eBay but he uses Internet Explorer and the rest of his security efforts/knowledge is no doubt just as shit.

username: username
password: password

good point there ambrose. How ironic we were just telling him to get firefox last week.

GreyWizzard · Post by **GreyWizzard** » 19 Jul 2006 03:31 pm

I was ordering through some DVD place in the US, and they had been hit before. So for an extra level of protection you had to send them a pic of your CC front and back with details blanked out, and also a CC statement. Was a pain in the arse... I discovered after doing all this a place in Australia I could have bought what I wanted, although at about $10 more.

selfish · Post by **selfish** » 20 Jul 2006 02:04 am

no guys he uses IE because it means he doesn't have to go through the hassle and rigmarole of installing an ENTIRE APPLICATION
i mean really think of the time and effort he would have to expend
please guys have some compassion

GameHED · Post by **GameHED** » 20 Jul 2006 07:17 pm

I've used ebay hundreds of times. Direct deposit is what I've always done as a buyer and a seller as I find it the easiest, 'most manual' way. Something seems low-risk about just walking into a bank(u dont even have to have an account with) with some cash. You see it all happen in front of you and there's no dodgy internet folk.
As long as you pass any bank in your day to day journey its by far the best way to use ebay. After all the money is in their account instantly and being cash it is limited to the ammount in your pocket - can't be accessed by some guy on the net who never got laid in highschool.

I love DD.

For those who use paypal, go to http://www.paypalsucks.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to hear some horror stories though before completely trusting them.

As a last resort if I can't use Direct Deposit as a valid payment method (especially stuff that I buy from an international seller) I ask if they accept Western Union International Money Order. Most good online shops and sellers on ebay accept it and it is safe. These cost about 9 dollars at australia post though so if you aren't a tightarse (or if the order is very small that it seems a waste) and can be fucked going to the PO to mail one out as a payment.... then it shouldn't be too much trouble. Remember to allow a few days for the envelope to reach their country, and then add some clearence time for the money to be processed and confirmed to be in thier account, (may take a week which is why some sellers might not like it) and then after the payment is confirmed and after they send you an email telling you this, (a seller will send a message about the status of your order saying "your payment has been confirmed, we are now sending out your order to you) they begin sending the item out to you. International Money Order = Slow but safe, (you get a receipt from the PO as proof of the payment, not something like "wire transfer" which has no protection) and is worth it for rare stuff that you are desperate to hunt down and find.

for eg:
I find I use ebay for buying some old nostalgiac mecha anime toys direct from hong kong sellers where usually the stuff is available before it hits japan as opposed to US shops which rip you off. Often because it is a niche interest stuff might be hard to find. So to eliminate the hassles of looking around you can just search for sellers of that item without knowing the shop name, and from there compare the prices against others. If the seller is a power seller, that is a good enough indication of them being reliable as the number shows how many gave positive feedback. But you got to communicate and ask lots of question before pressing the buy it now button. (this way you know as much about the thing as possible before commiting to anything)

Ebay = great for rare stuff that you can't find in your country or is sold at crap prices if it is. Otherwise I just use normal online shops through DD.

As for paypal, although paypal is convenient, and fast, I don't shop for stuff online that often (as mentioned I mainly use ebay for rare stuff) to really justify using it. If I were one of those old ladies that constantly needs to use it, maybe. Like some others I am paranoid and don't like the idea of inputting details, and having an account that may be in danger of being cleared out of more money than what you had in your pocket. It's the same way for me with mobile phones too: I like those prepaid cards so if something were to get stolen, the thief can only really spend what credit is in the prepaid card and this limits the damage and risk to you a little.

westical · Post by **westical** » 20 Jul 2006 10:45 pm

GameHED wrote:As a last resort if I can't use Direct Deposit as a valid payment method (especially stuff that I buy from an international seller) I ask if they accept Western Union International Money Order. Most good online shops and sellers on ebay accept it and it is safe.

There's little recourse with direct deposit, there's nothing stopping whoever you transferred the money to running off with it leaving you with nothing. Your bank probably won't do anything either, after all, you intentionally gave the funds to them. At least with PayPal you can seek refunds via their own complaints process or from your credit card provider (although technically you did authorise a payment to PayPal in the first place).

And ebay specifically states that they do not allow the use of Western Union. Wouldn't call it safe either.

GameHED · Post by **GameHED** » 21 Jul 2006 06:18 pm

When they say that they must be reffering to western union "cash transfer". WU International Money order seems fine.
Please read this for more information and click "money order" to find out its benefits. Many confuse WU "cash transfer" (which is like wire transfer) with WU "Money Order". (two totally different things)

MO (which is like a cheque) is just sloooooow because of the time it takes, so sellers might prefer not to accept it because they have to wait before the payment clears. But if you are patient like me and order things from international sellers only occasionally it's fine.
quoted from ebay:

Money Orders are a convenient, safe and economical alternative to personal and bank cheques.

So far I have had no problems with DD and most non-ebay online shops I've used that offer it don't seem to have ripped me off so far. But there are risks which you might want to read about here.

As for paypal: it's not worth the risk if you have large sums of money but small amounts is ok. They lock the money away for a long time, gain profit from the interest and because they are owned by ebay, ebay automatically wants you to use them to boost themselves. But if you go to the paypalsucks site you will read about all the problems thousands of people have had with them.

I personally don't trust them. For those who have had positive experience cool, but I do want to point out those who have had bad ones as well for those who have used them and want to warn others.

I would also like to add: Ebay can be scary when it comes to piracy and bootlegged software. I pretty much avoid buying games and stuff because you never know if they are legit copies or not.

for eg:
Here is a good guide to checking if the GBA stuff you might have just bought from ebay from a seller putting up bargain prices has sold a bootleg copy or not:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/view" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... hp?t=74898

A friend of mine recently got a bootleg metal slug advance cart and the quality of the boot is pretty damn good quality. It is identical to legit cart accept for the lack of the indent on the cartridge and the words near the cart contacts. But otherwise looks very genuine. So beware of what it is you buy from ebay. (not ebay's fault of course but since this is a "ebay advice" thread, it relates.)

A good tip to know if they are dodgey is if they INSIST on ONLY allowing wire transfer as a form of payment (as opposed to one form of payment amoungst many other ones that they offer with proper security) then you should be scared. (this is the part that I think people are scared of, you only have thier word to go by. Especially if it is a person with low rating and barely any positive feedback points)

edit:

eBay does not recommend the use of instant cash wire transfer services. These services are designed to allow you to send money to family and friends?people you know and trust. While sellers may offer this option, they cannot require you to pay this way. If you suspect a seller is trying to commit fraud by insisting on payment through an instant cash wire transfer, please decline to use it and report the seller to eBay.

Risks:
Vulnerable to criminal misuse
Difficult to identify and designate recipient
Not traceable
Does not offer verification and cancellation privileges
Generally, no recourse is available if the item is not delivered as promised, even if you used your credit card to send the payment
Not covered under eBay's Buyer Protection Program.
Note: We suggest you use extreme caution when using such services, and decline to send money to sellers who insist on payment through this method.

^
Western Union also has a cash wire transfer service. I think that was what they are reffering to "not recommended to use Western Union" ...and not the WU Money Order service they offer which is good. (I think they should clarify that to avoid confusion to noobs imo)

westical · Post by **westical** » 21 Jul 2006 06:51 pm

PayPal is fine for buyers, it's just like any other credit card merchant.

GameHED · Post by **GameHED** » 21 Jul 2006 07:11 pm

Ok but they say that about internet banking and many other things. Even using an ATM can be dangerous as hackers can put stuff on the atm.

Like my example of prepaid cards limiting the damage to you (because a thief can only use what is on the card and not making unlimited number of calls which you pay for in a bill

) similarly some people don't like the idea of having thier actual bank account linked to anything (paypal in this case) where all kinds of charges are made that have no explanation for why they were charged. More links to horror stories with PP.

If you've had no probs, fine, but others have, which is worth mentioning.

summary of an experience from one user of paypal:
http://www.aboutpaypal.org/how_paypal_m" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... your_money

When you engage in financial transactions using PayPal and channel money into their system, it will take a while until this money will again be out of their system, even if everything is conducted orderly.

But in practice, because of their habit of locking ("restricting") accounts and then requesting their clients to enter a time-consuming process of providing documentation, money often remains in their system for a considerable length of time. My own account of 467.11 US dollars has been "permanently locked".

The impression they'd like the public to have is that they restrict accounts to prevent fraud. But actually, they derive profit from restricting accounts, and from keeping them locked for as long as possible. And YOU have agreed to this by using their website.

Just read the following excerpt from their Terms of Use (downloaded December 14, 2001):

"PayPal will pool your funds together with funds from other Users, and will place those funds in accounts at one or more FDIC-insured banks ("Pooled Accounts"). You agree that any earnings on the Pooled Accounts will be the property of PayPal, and you will not receive interest or other earnings on the funds that PayPal handles as your agent."

So, they take your money, and my 467 dollars, and put it all together in an account, or several accounts, with proper banks, and pocket the interest. You, and I, get nothing.

And of course, as PayPal is facing economic problems, the incentive to make money simply by temporarily or permanently locking customer accounts, and then collecting interest on the withheld amounts, is a considerable factor.

I am surprised that they get away with this. No bank or other financial institution would.

Damien Cave, in his excellent February 23, 2001 article on PayPal, published by Salon.com, wrote:

"Its terms of use emphasize that PayPal is 'not a bank ... not subject to banking regulations.'"

The wording as quoted above seemed to reveal too blatantly their business strategy. The line "not subject to banking regulations" is no longer part of their Terms of Use.

Instead, on the version I downloaded on December 14, 2001, the section reads:

"PayPal is not a bank and the Service is a payment processing service rather than a banking service"

I don't think that their lawyers, or whoever drafts their legal documents, are very good with words, so they regularly have to rework their writings.

The form letter from them that provoked me to set up this site stated:

"Following an investigation, this account has been permanently locked due to violations of our Terms of Use. This decision may not be appealed."

I guess they'll change the above wording, too, though it may take a while. There must be more elegant, and more polite, methods to tell a customer that his 467 dollars have been virtually confiscated by a virtual bank.

Ups, no, they aren't a bank. They don't want to be one, either.

As Damien Cave reported in the above-quoted article: ". while the company considered buying a bank charter last year, executives ruled against it."

Why? Quote Peter Thiel, a co-founder of PayPal: "The cost and regulatory burden was too high."

Damien Cave: "The paperwork and all the restrictions of law were just too much."

Yeah, if PayPal were properly regulated, they couldn't just park my money indefinitely on their accounts, and pocket the interest.

Damien Cave quoted Peter Thiel with the following additional enlightening statement: "Consumers didn't want another bank account, they want to move money."

Yeah, I would like to move money, my money. For example, from PayPal's pooled account to my own account. For that purpose, I don't really care whether they call themselves a bank or a pen pal club.

I have lost 467.11 US dollars to PayPal's scheming. I will probably survive the loss of 467.11 US dollars. But, to be honest, I don't want PayPal to survive on the kind of schemes by which they got hold of those 467.11 US dollars of mine.

[Update: after several weeks, and after having found their attention with this website, they unrestricted my account, and I was able to withdraw my money. Please see the subscriber section for tips on how to make PayPal release funds, or write to me for individual advice.

westical · Post by **westical** » 21 Jul 2006 07:15 pm

Direct deposits are usually made via internet banking though...

GameHED · Post by **GameHED** » 21 Jul 2006 07:33 pm

But as mentioned by the original poster I was responding to, some people (me) still go to the bank and fill out a deposit form. (using just physical cash in hand or right out of the pocket) No internet involved. I'm not saying that is risk free, but so far, for a seller or sellers which are trustworthy (power seller with rating in the thousands on ebay or just some well known online store which has a good rep) nothing bad (to me at least - I can only comment on my own experiences) has happened with DD.

With paypal, in the past (and possibly in the future) thousands of people have complained (and sued) about their money being locked away and account frozen. Very annoying if it were to happen, but if it hasn't yet, that's cool too. My opinion is that I wouldn't trust them. If you are a buyer dealing with small amounts it should be ok though.

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 21 Jul 2006 10:11 pm

Credit card or COD all the way. I can't believe the people who will bitch and moan about how their credit card is insecure and then go and deposit cash into a bank account (which you have absolutely no hope of getting back should the seller go AWOL).

I always use CC or CC through PayPal if I really have to. If my credit card details get lifted by some dodgy HK seller I'll fill in the form, cancel the card and then its the CC company's problem. PayPal try to get around this by stopping you by forbidding you to do a chargeback in their TOS. Fuck that. I'll chargeback and cancel the card quick as lightning. So what if they cancel my account.

GameHED · Post by **GameHED** » 22 Jul 2006 12:10 am

But if they go AWOL you are covered under the ebay buyer protection system for the $400. (Direct deposit is listed under the protection system) That's why they have a feedback rating system so all the honest ones get rewarded for providing legit service and making the buyer happy. The closer to 100% positive feedback a seller has, the less chance you are to be ripped off by them. It is highly unlikely they would do it if they were a powerseller with positive feedback rating in the 100s of thousands. (like an actual store with good reputation that's been running for years.) If they do, you can give them negative feedback and warn others about the negative experience you have with them to damage thier reputation while receiving protection from ebay because you used a secure form of payment that ebay recommends. (1 positive point = one unique customer think the seller is good - a unique ebay user can only plus or minus 1 point to the seller regardless of how many transactions they have made with that seller. So if they, the seller has thousands of positive points, what are the odds you are going to be treated like crap? It's all about limiting the risk and maximum damage to you - only the cost of the item itself because that is what you know you forked over the counter when you desposited it at their bank - rather than having all your money locked away somewhere on the internet through some middleman service that can freeze your money by locking your account whenever they feel like it)

westical · Post by **westical** » 22 Jul 2006 12:23 am

How is my money locked away somewhere on the internet when I pay for an item via PayPal?

How is my exposure to loss any less if I use direct deposit instead of PayPal?

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 22 Jul 2006 01:09 am

OK. First of all. It's called the Enter key. It's about an inch and a half to the right and about half an inch up from the period key.

GameHED wrote:But if they go AWOL you are covered under the ebay buyer protection system for the $400. (Direct deposit is listed under the protection system)

Actually the maximum you can claim under the eBay Standard Purchase Protection Program is US$175 which is about AUD$235 and they take out a $25 processing fee so a $26 item nets you $1, a $50 item nets you $25.

God help you if you dispute the condition or value of the goods. Then you need to pay for an independent valuer (which eBay won't reimburse you for) and then submit the results to them for them to consider.

So let's review. I can go through their costly, moronic and lengthy process. Or I could just pay for it via credit card and if they go AWOL I go sign a form or call my bank and they sort it out for me.

No. I think I'll take the lobotomy thanks. I'm RETARDED.

GameHED wrote:That's why they have a feedback rating system so all the honest ones get rewarded for providing legit service and making the buyer happy. The closer to 100% positive feedback a seller has, the less chance you are to be ripped off by them. It is highly unlikely they would do it if they were a powerseller with positive feedback rating in the 100s of thousands. (like an actual store with good reputation that's been running for years.) If they do, you can give them negative feedback and warn others about the negative experience you have with them to damage thier reputation while receiving protection from ebay because you used a secure form of payment that ebay recommends. (1 positive point = one unique customer think the seller is good - a unique ebay user can only plus or minus 1 point to the seller regardless of how many transactions they have made with that seller. So if they, the seller has thousands of positive points, what are the odds you are going to be treated like crap?

So if the bad people hijack a power seller account the feedback procedure I'm... ummm.... I'm protected?

GameHED wrote:It's all about limiting the risk and maximum damage to you - only the cost of the item itself because that is what you know you forked over the counter when you desposited it at their bank - rather than having all your money locked away somewhere on the internet through some middleman service that can freeze your money by locking your account whenever they feel like it)

So instead of having your money "locked away" (which its not because the CC company will recover the money from PayPal on my behalf and credit me immediately) the money I would receive from eBay as credit from their fraud protection program is now "locked away" while eBay conducts its lengthy fraud review process?

Again, dealing directly using cash and cash-a-like bank transfers is silly.

GameHED · Post by **GameHED** » 22 Jul 2006 04:30 pm

Actually the maximum you can claim under the eBay Standard Purchase Protection Program is US$175 which is about AUD$235 and they take out a $25 processing fee so a $26 item nets you $1, a $50 item nets you $25.

under protection for buyers:
http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/tp/esppp-process.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

eBay Standard Purchase Protection Program
eBay's Standard Purchase Protection Program reimburses buyers for eligible transactions when:

An item was not received.

An item was received but significantly not as described.

You'll be reimbursed up to a maximum of AU$400 (less AU$25 to cover processing costs).

For example:

If the item price is 500, you're eligible to receive 375.
If the item price is 100, you're eligible to receive 75.
If the item price is 26, you're eligible to receive 1.
The maximum reimbursement for any claim is AU$375.

It's enough protection for the majority of small items I purchase which is what I use ebay mainly for: vintage stuff that is out of print or discontinued, or just items where the shipping cost would not be prohibitive to me. In which case, just buying said item locally is less hassle. It looks like the protection is different for ebay australia.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/esppp-process.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;