Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

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Candy Arse
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by Candy Arse »

Madmya wrote:I don't think people suggested it doesn't work, just that it's not optimal.
Very well put.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by itch »

Optimal may very well be the wankiest word in the fitness industry.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by Candy Arse »

I'd give that award to "cleanse" or "detox".

Plus, what he said is true. Vegan lifestyle can absolutely work, it just takes a little more strategy and planning to get the benefits seen from various sources of meat.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

Optimal is subjective and it varies depending on goals. An elite body-builder has a different 'optimal' than someone after a great, sustainable physique long-term. If strength is your goal large quantities of meat and dairy will get you there quicker. Optimal strength yes, not necessarily optimal long-term health.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by itch »

Candy Arse wrote:I'd give that award to "cleanse" or "detox".
It's a close call.

Plus, what he said is true. Vegan lifestyle can absolutely work, it just takes a little more strategy and planning to get the benefits seen from various sources of meat.
This maybe true.

But I'm pretty sure the reason Danzig went vegan is because it felt optimal for him.

You could argue that the traditional model is the one that requires more 'strategy'. Bulking, cutting, no carbs, refeeding, feeling like garbage etc...

Also I think men have a tendency to obsess over 'what does the strongest guy in the world do, I'm going to do that'.

Personally, I'm happy to sacrifice a little 'bad-assery' if it makes me feel more stable and even, and feels more sustainable. (which I absolutely think a vegan diet can provide)

Let's face it, a lot of people who do bang on about what's 'optimal' really don't care about their health as much as they care about a stylised aesthetic or pushing the envelope of performance. Is that really where we should all be getting our advice?
Last edited by itch on 02 May 2014 05:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

Further to that an example. By 1991 Carl Lewis was a full vegan. At the 1991 world championships he clocked the then world record in winning the 100m final. Carl Lewis calls the '91 world championships his best meet ever and attributes it to his diet. He's still a vegan.

Not doubting omnivorous diets deliver but I don't agree vego/vegan diets are sub-optimal.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

But then I'm one biased, fit, vegetarian (for 23 years) mofo. :nana:
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

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They're only sub-optimal in terms of the extra strategy and consideration required to get the same quality and volume of various nutrients found in omnivorous consumption. Although that is said under the dangerous assumption that the omnivore knows what they're doing :lol:

Neither approach is right or wrong. With my own education and experience, I know if I switched over to the vegan lifestyle I could absolutely make it work just as well as my current approach, I would just need more thought and care when it comes to locating sources of things like complete proteins and getting in an amount relevant to my requirements, and making sure the source of protein, BCAAs etc present themselves to the body as effectively as possible.

If an omnivore comes to me and asks for the best, most complete sources of protein for example, I'm sending them straight to things like whey protein isolate, kangaroo etc.

If a vegan comes and asks the same question, I'm sending them to things such as brown rice protein or chick pea protein supplements as they're great vegan options. Are they as outright beneficial as whey protein? Research says no. Are they a great option for vegans wanting to build lean/mean physiques? Absolutely.

Often the people getting around yelling that vegan/red meat diets are crap are usually shoving their face full of shit anyway. Plenty of fat and unhealthy vegans/omnivores out there.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by itch »

Lately I've been drawn to combinations of foods and I've learned that they are common combinations for vegetarians because they provide the 'full spectrum' of aminos.

For example, potatos and beans. Or rice and lentils.

I'm drawn to them for the taste/carb load/protein source, and I read they are popular for vegans to cover amino acid blind spots. Potatos have Beans covered, vice versa.

Any truth to that?

For the record Candy, you're always extremely level headed and only seem to disagree with my opinion on macro ratio.

Most of the time I'm just venting about meatheads and ketards that I bang heads with, which must seem kind of confusing for someone who's always reasonable and well informed.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by Megaman »

itch wrote:The point is Danzig competed as a vegan.
See I thought your point was 'Mac Danzig, UFC fighter is fully 80/10/10 now', but I guess what you meant was 'Mac Danzig, former UFC fighter has for some time been on a vegan diet that was not 80/10/10 but one more more appropriate to that of a UFC fighter, and has since retiring from the UFC become 80/10/10'.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by itch »

I did think he was still competing. (Ultimately, a portion of his career has been fought as 80/10/10 and openly suggests he should have always been on it, and his previous diet was very close to it maybe 60/20/20, 70/20/10, eating identical foods in a slightly different ratio. I absolutely think 80/10/10 or close to it could support a UFC fighter save for the heavier weight divisions, simply because you couldn't put that much food in your face. )

Edit:

Says here he announced his retirement on March 4 2014. That's like 5 minutes ago.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

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itch wrote:Lately I've been drawn to combinations of foods and I've learned that they are common combinations for vegetarians because they provide the 'full spectrum' of aminos.

For example, potatos and beans. Or rice and lentils.

I'm drawn to them for the taste/carb load/protein source, and I read they are popular for vegans to cover amino acid blind spots. Potatos have Beans covered, vice versa.

Any truth to that?

For the record Candy, you're always extremely level headed and only seem to disagree with my opinion on macro ratio.

Most of the time I'm just venting about meatheads and ketards that I bang heads with, which must seem kind of confusing for someone who's always reasonable and well informed.
Yep a vegan will have to combine foods to get the full spectrum. The issue generally being you will have to consume a great amount of plant sources to get the same amount of protein/amino acid etc from a smaller volume of animal sources. Supplementation certainly never hurts. If someone is lacto-ovo I would just tell them to smash the whey protein and they're off to a really good start :lol:

Minerals like calcium, iron and zinc are less bioavailable when derived from plant sources vs animal sources, so a strategic approach is required there as well.

Mind you I come purely from the perspective of sports nutrition, and optimising health, performance and body composition.

The average vegan wouldn't give a fuck, they would just assume that no meat/dairy = better health. tsk tsk

Macro ratio - like counting calories, not really worth the effort when a person makes poor choices in the first place. Fundamentals come before refinement.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by itch »

I have a meal right now which is 5 potatoes in oven chips and a whole tin of beans, which is 60 grams of protein. That's approaching about 800 calories which is less than a third of my days intake, I average 60-80 grams a day, sometimes hitting 100.

It seems like enough to me. I feel like the only thing that limits my development is my laziness.

Sorry, it's 30 grams, lol.

60 calories get mixed up sometimes. :redface:

Actually, no it IS 60 grams. Blech. I'm sleepy tonight.
Last edited by itch on 02 May 2014 11:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

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By contrast I would love to see the last wholefood meal Peppermint Lounge put away....
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

Heh, rare cheat meal for me last night. Grill'd chickpea burger and a shared regular chips. :up:

Typical day?

05:45 500ml water immediately upon rising
Cardio + abs
07:15 smoothie comprising 1 full egg, 4 egg whites, half cup oats, banana, 1 tablespoon flaxseed, handful of kale, handful of frozen berries + water. Drop multivitamins & spirulina.
10:00 protein shake + snack (either couple of rice cakes, banana, home made protein balls or handful of raw almonds)
Lunch - protein source such as beans or tofu with brown rice or occasionally quinoa. Fresh fruit or veg/salad.
15:30 snack (see 10:00)
Evening weights + sipping BCAA formula followed by protein shake.
Dinner - cooked meal with protein source + veg (thankfully myself and my partner are good cooks with a variety of healthy veg recipies)

I don't hesitate to stop by the pantry and graze on a handful of sultanas, a few dates or prunes, or slice up a carrot to dip into some chili hummus. Whatever takes my fancy.

We buy the bulk of our fruit and veg from farmer's markets and supplement from independent grocers and occasionally supermarkets. Farmer's market produce is vastly superior to that found in supermarkets.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

Candy Arse wrote:They're only sub-optimal in terms of the extra strategy and consideration required to get the same quality and volume of various nutrients found in omnivorous consumption. Although that is said under the dangerous assumption that the omnivore knows what they're doing :lol:
Understood, mind you people who are very disciplined with their training are right on top of diet be they veg or omni. I think where omni does have a quantifiable advantage is a lazy omni diet will get someone further in the gym than a lazy veg diet. Sure it carries a lot of sludge but your typical Western diet, the results of which can be seen at your nearest shopping mall, delivers more strength-building ingredients for better or worse than a typical Western diet sans meat and dairy.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by itch »

Thanks Pep, what's your total calories for the day?
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

Around 3.5k.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by itch »

Peppermint Lounge wrote:Around 3.5k.

Sweet thanks man. Puts it in perspective a bit.

Feel a bit underfed at the moment. Too cold for frozen banana.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by cloud »

What do you blokes thing about Casein Protein?
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by Candy Arse »

It absolutely has its research-proven benefits. Not something I'd take around my training sessions, but before bed? Sign me up.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

Casein digests more slowly and therefore provides sustained release over time. Whey is absorbed rapidly which suits its use post-workout. Many use both. Whey while training, Casein before bed. If you're training hard and must choose one go with Whey.

FYI I'm currently trying this. Vegan protein with full amino profile. Unfortunately it tastes like death and I say that as someone who is well desensitised having opened my throat to some nasty tasting shit over the years. This however is beyond fucking horrible. Let's see if I acclimatise.

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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by itch »

Sun warrior is supposed to be the best vegan protein. And it tastes that bad?

They have other products that taste a little better yeah? (I've never had it my self)
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by Peppermint Lounge »

About to drop some now...

Lol that's rank. It has the look, taste and consistency of wood dust. The scoop is smaller though and being dairy free there's less bloat.
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Re: Games Ranch health and fitness discussion

Post by itch »

Bummer.

I've had pretty bad experience with vegan protein powders.

Probably the best one I've tried is hemp protein. Then, maybe pea protein.
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