First HD-DVD/Bluray faceoff.

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 01 Aug 2006 09:11 am

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/trainingday.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Final Thoughts

Whatever its merits as a film, 'Training Day' has made history by becoming one of the first titles to be released on both the Blu-ray and HD DVD formats. In our first head-to-head comparison, we found the HD DVD to be superior. The unfortunately cropping of the Blu-ray image, coupled with more noticeable compression artifacts and an overall darker cast, can't compete with the more consistently pleasing presentation of the HD DVD. Also a strike against the Blu-ray version is that both the Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital-Plus soundtracks have been dropped in favor of plain old Dolby Digital, and even the disc's menu navigation is more clunky and with less interactive functionality. Certainly, this Blu-ray release delivers fine video quality in its own right, but the format's supporters still need to step it up if they are going to win the hearts and minds of early adopters over HD DVD.

So bluray still sucks and is inferior to hd-dvd.

Why are we not surprised, another over hyped, under delivered sony product.

mxlegend99 · Post by **mxlegend99** » 01 Aug 2006 09:14 am

Denzel is more black on Blu-Ray? Blu-Ray FTW

mech · Post by **mech** » 01 Aug 2006 09:37 am

HD-DVD has 30 gig discs and the current Blu-Ray ones are 25 gig, yeah?

And Blu-Ray's running MPEG2 while HD-DVD is running MPEG4, correct?

Because that would explain why HD-DVD is looking better... it fucking blows my mind that Sony have released the format so half-baked. If it were running on 50 gig discs with MPEG4 they'd be smoking HD-DVD.

Peppermint Lounge · Post by **Peppermint Lounge** » 01 Aug 2006 09:56 am

I'm also at a loss to explain why they're debuting Bluray crippled to half its capacity.

Ambrose Burnside · Post by **Ambrose Burnside** » 01 Aug 2006 10:10 am

mech wrote:HD-DVD has 30 gig discs and the current Blu-Ray ones are 25 gig, yeah?

And Blu-Ray's running MPEG2 while HD-DVD is running MPEG4, correct?

Because that would explain why HD-DVD is looking better... it fucking blows my mind that Sony have released the format so half-baked. If it were running on 50 gig discs with MPEG4 they'd be smoking HD-DVD.

What will the PS3 support (MPEG2 or 4? 25GB or 50?)

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 01 Aug 2006 10:10 am

Peppermint Lounge wrote:I'm also at a loss to explain why they're debuting Bluray crippled to half its capacity.

Pep the biggest difference between hd-dvd/bluray is the fact that bluray use .1mm layer thickness and hd-dvd uses the dvd 0.6mm layer thickness.

The reason why bluray uses .1mm is to be more aggressive in the pits on the disc which yields more storage space. But the problem is that works fine for a single layer. But with dual layer, you need to put another .1mm stamped layer on top of that .1mm layer. Now what the problem is when the stamper stamps the second layer, it generally crushes the first layer which means you have a coaster. Sony hoped to solve this problem but they can't find materials that provide the strength needed at .1mm thickness to handle the second layer being pressed on it. So dual layer discs are extremely low yield and expensive.

Also why mpeg2? it's all about money, sony own lots of patents in mpeg2 and currently they are subsidising/loosing money on manufactured discs to match hd-dvd in pricing. So in order to claw back those losses their forcing mpeg2, sony don't make any money on vc-1/h.264 codecs so that's why bluray is crippled. Will it get better, who knows. I know 1 thing and that hd-dvd has demonstrated we don't really need bluray, hd-dvd is doing awesome things at half the price of bluray. The costs and yields of hd-dvd will get a lot better over time than bluray will and that's what will decide who the winner is imo.

What will the PS3 support (MPEG2 or 4? 25GB or 50?)

there are some doubts how well ps3 can support mpeg4/vc-1 currently, becuase the gpu used in ps3 has no hardware acceleration for these codecs so it will be pure software. So they could also be limiting releases to mpeg2 for better ps3 compatibility.

jizzlobber · Post by **jizzlobber** » 01 Aug 2006 12:40 pm

if you have a bit of time this is an interesting interview (especially for tech novices like myself)- http://centracomm.cachefly.net/majornel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... VD-mp3.mp3

ok it may look like a beat-up as it's part of major nelson's (microsoft employee) blogcast but if you can put that aside it's quite interesting.
would be good if lestat or mech could comment on this because there must be a LOT of 360 fanboys thinking HD-DVD shits on blue-ray

Muzza · Post by **Muzza** » 01 Aug 2006 04:43 pm

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang was also reviewed on both formats on the same site lestat posted a link too.

Once again the Hd-Dvd is the superior one, with the same cropping problems as found in Training Day.

lestat · Post by **lestat** » 01 Aug 2006 04:46 pm

That's quite a good link jizz, people who want to know why bluray is stumbling, check that link out, explains it all, thanks to Amir and friends, who if you haven't noticed is a big ms contributor to avs forums.

PhoneMonkey · Post by **PhoneMonkey** » 01 Aug 2006 10:08 pm

I can remeber making a thread about this very topic ages ago. I got shot down in a blaze of glory by hordes of ravaging Sony fanboys.

Geez I hope they get a nice big serving of tender marinated crow.

asmodeus · Post by **asmodeus** » 01 Aug 2006 10:56 pm

Initially I was more interested in bluray, mostly for use in computers, due to the potentially larger discs.

I still have a feeling that these formats are 3-5 years too early though.

selfish · Post by **selfish** » 02 Aug 2006 12:40 am

asmodeus wrote:I still have a feeling that these formats are 3-5 years too early though.

no fucking shit
it's only the kind of geeks that torrent gigs and gigs of shit just because they can that really care about this battle
everyone else is just waiting for it to be over already

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 02 Aug 2006 02:36 am

Oh my god! HD-DVD's biggest studio proponent does a shitty job of a Blu-Ray release!

Yeah. That's a big fucking suprise.

While we're on the subject. Why would Warner start supporting Blu-Ray anyway? I thought HD-DVD's future was so bright that we'd all have to start wearing shades when we look directly at a HD-DVD disc? Surely the biggest studio supporter of HD-DVD wouldn't have to hedge their bets with such a successful format in the making

</damagecontrol>

mech · Post by **mech** » 03 Aug 2006 09:47 am

Jizzy McLobber wrote:if you have a bit of time this is an interesting interview (especially for tech novices like myself)- http://centracomm.cachefly.net/majornel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... VD-mp3.mp3

ok it may look like a beat-up as it's part of major nelson's (microsoft employee) blogcast but if you can put that aside it's quite interesting.
would be good if lestat or mech could comment on this because there must be a LOT of 360 fanboys thinking HD-DVD shits on blue-ray

It's mostly correct, but man, the amounts of spin in that podcast made me sick. Very biased.

Talez · Post by **Talez** » 03 Aug 2006 01:20 pm

From the sounds of that podcast I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft were discounting the use of the VC-1 by HD-DVD content producers (which is purely speculation) and supplying an expert (which was in the podcast) to try and give HD-DVD a codec head start while placing themselves as the codec of choice for the next generation.

If HD-DVD content producers are going to insist on encoding everything with VC-1 its another reason for me to drop HD-DVD as it stands. Call it my mac fanboyism showing through if you want but having Microsoft as the codec gatekeepers is a Bad Thing™. AVC 4 life, yo and all that.

mech · Post by **mech** » 08 Aug 2006 01:56 pm

LOLZORZ. The latest Major Nelson pod cast has an interview with the guys doing the HD-DVD add-on, and they discount the lack of HDMI saying it's "not important for image quality" - um and what about the whole "lack of full resolution or no picture at all without HDCP" crap guys? So any content protected discs can't be played on it?

It's a great podcast, but man they really push the Microsoft angle a little too hard for my liking.

selfish · Post by **selfish** » 08 Aug 2006 02:44 pm

i should subscribe to it just for the opportunity to laugh at some terrible web2.0 marketing
it sounds pretty obvious

jizzlobber · Post by **jizzlobber** » 08 Aug 2006 03:15 pm

yeah i'm with you mech, it would've been nice is major nelson went into the hdmi thing a little further.

I don't care much about next gen movies anyway, I like it when he interviews game developers and other sections of microsoft like the XBLA guys.

just on the HD-DVD add on though, i'd like to know if you can use it to play games (I doubt it), I dunno about the rest of you but my 360 is waaaay too noisy when playing games, I really should move (it's next to me atm).

mech · Post by **mech** » 08 Aug 2006 03:18 pm

It is ridiculous how loud the 360 is. If it's that loud when playing movies, forget it.

However if the HD-DVD add-on is cheap, I'd consider getting it - Blu-Ray with the PS3, HD-DVD with the 360, SOLD!!

Although if I have a plasma or whatever with HDMI by then I'll be pretty cut about the missing HDMI port on the 360.