FIBA World Championships Thread (Basketball)

Froggy · Post by **Froggy** » 07 Aug 2006 10:11 am

With the World Champs only about 10 days away I think it's time to start discussing them. As we all may have heard the Australian's lost to New Zealand for some crap trophy for only the second time in history with arguably one of our best teams to take them on. Last time they lost Phil Smyth got axed (some say he was set up) but Goorjan gets to stay even though losing to NZ is unforgivable. I think only due to the lack of time to replace him with a genuine international standard coach before the worlds is the only reason he is still there.

Onto predictions, the crazy Euro's etc will all still be strong, Argentina (I think 5 NBA players in their team), Yugoslavia, Italy, Lithunia, Greece. China could break the shackles and arrive on the international scene this World Champs but with so many of their players shielded from the rest of the world it is still a serious barrier to success, Yao can't win on his own at the highest level. Australia well, looking at our group we should expect to make it to the elimination stages, if we don't Australian basketball is still going backwards and BA will have no choice but to replace Goorj with someone else (maybe even look outside the domestic comp for once).

Then there's Team USA, team USA are pissed after the Olympics, it hurt, it hurt deep and it is still going to be hurting until they have gold around their neck in Beijing. Winning the worlds is merely a step in their climb back to no 1. They've assembled an ongoing squad, so for the first time in history they have a USA basketball program for NBA players which actually has an ongoing team like the rest of the world, gone are the days of throwing together teams because in Sydney and definatly in Greece they sent across 5th - 6th string team so it is no wonder they lost. With their recent demolition of Puerto Rico in their first practice match 114-69, to think they have another 5 exhibition games and 2 more weeks of practicing to gel even more, I think we are about to see the most exciting and dominant USA basketball team ever since the dream team. This team is going to be scary come 2008 Olympics when most of them will just be starting to peak, a lot at the moment are 20 - 24 years old!

My prediction, USA all the way, with Wade, Lebron, Melo, Arenas, Marion, Brand, Miller etc they are out to put things right. They like me might be sick of Andrew Gaze etc claiming the rest of the world has caught up to the USA where really they haven't, the USA just hasn't fielded their best players since 92 where they showed no one comes close. This team is close to their best, but in 2008 when Billups, Stoudemire, bryant and co are also there (missing at the moment due to personal reasons and injuries) the team is going to be even stronger than the one we see at the World Champs, so if they go undefeated at these World's, they will dominate at the Olympics like we have not seen and did not think we would see again from 92.

Group A
Argentina
France
Lebanon
Nigeria
Serbia & Montengro
Venzuala

Group B
Angola
Germany
Japan
New Zealand
Panama
Spain

Group C
Australia (Currently ranked #9 in the world)
Brazil
Greece
Lithuania
Qatar
Turkey

Group D
China
Italy
Puerto Rico
Senegal
Slovenia
USA

brent · Post by **brent** » 07 Aug 2006 12:21 pm

Good to see someone else is interested in basketball here.

Top 2 from each group go through?

Predictions

A - 1st Argentina 2nd France.
B - 1st Spain 2nd Germany
C - 1st Australia 2nd Lithuania
D - 1st USA 2nd Peurto Rico (China maybe?)

The USA squad is remarkably better picked this time around, they have done the job properly this time bringing a few role players that do the team thing (Bowen/Battier) and really have a point to prove. I don't think they will lose a game.

pilonv1 · Post by **pilonv1** » 07 Aug 2006 12:37 pm

Australia (Currently ranked #9 in the world)

And lost a series to NZ due to shitty coaching. Hey we've got an NBA quality starting centre and we're running pick and rolls and double screens on the perimeter despite having worse guards than your average NBL team!

And with Neilsen and probably Anstey out too, they're pretty much fucked. It's nice that CJ will be back and Daniel Kickert is a good player but the offense is horrible. If they keep running the Kings style offense they will get nowhere.

I don't know if the US will get the gold - my money would still be on Argentina because every international basketball competition proves that the best team will always triumph over the best players. I'd expect Greece, Spain, France and Serbia to be up there too.

General Chaos · Post by **General Chaos** » 07 Aug 2006 01:04 pm

No Horry no Gold!

Froggy · Post by **Froggy** » 07 Aug 2006 02:02 pm

pilonv1 wrote:
Australia (Currently ranked #9 in the world)
I don't know if the US will get the gold - my money would still be on Argentina because every international basketball competition proves that the best team will always triumph over the best players. I'd expect Greece, Spain, France and Serbia to be up there too.

Argentina will be strong again but I think the US is a team this time, I just can't see Argentina or any other country coming close to beating, Wade, James, Anthony, Miller, Marion, Arenas, Bowen, Brand, Battier.. they've picked an all-star TEAM this time and they've also put aside plenty of time to get the team working together etc and the correct coach for it.

Yes, Goorjan is a fuck knuckle, it's not hard to dominate the NBL as a coach when he's got the team he has and the funding which most of the other NBL teams don't have. Sydney also seems to magically be able to afford lots of imports etc that other clubs can't but without any questioning of the salary cap.

Brent, I think there's about 1% chance Australia will finish in front of Lithuania in our group, I think it's the top 16 that go through as well.

Blotto · Post by **Blotto** » 07 Aug 2006 03:03 pm

General Chaos wrote:No Horry no Gold!

you'd consider butt fucking Robert Horry if you had half the chance wouldnt ya chaos? j/k

Froggy · Post by **Froggy** » 07 Aug 2006 03:24 pm

What do you mean consider! lol

Froggy · Post by **Froggy** » 08 Aug 2006 02:21 pm

USA bitchslaps China 119 - 73 in practice match lol.

lubes · Post by **lubes** » 08 Aug 2006 04:37 pm

My Predictions:

Group A
Winner - Argentina
2nd Place - France or Serbia

Group B
Winner - Spain
2nd Place - Germany

Group C
Winner - Lithuania
2nd Place - Greece

Group D
Winner - USA
2nd Place - Italy or Puerto Rico

brent · Post by **brent** » 21 Aug 2006 09:34 am

Australia beats Brazil in the first game in what could only be called an upset. As long as we dont finish 4th in our group we avoid USA in the first knockout stage.

General Chaos · Post by **General Chaos** » 21 Aug 2006 12:02 pm

Awesome Australia got pumped by Turkey and nobody cared!

Texas · Post by **Texas** » 21 Aug 2006 12:09 pm

I do... but not as much as I used too.I hate Brian G, and feel very indifferent about the aussie squad. Bring back Drewy!

Arthas · Post by **Arthas** » 21 Aug 2006 12:09 pm

I love this country

Even if it is only basketball there should be more support for the aussies. I just saw a brief thing (very brief) on the news and was like WTF mate?

Texas · Post by **Texas** » 21 Aug 2006 12:18 pm

So do I... which is why we should have an Aussie coach.

pilonv1 · Post by **pilonv1** » 21 Aug 2006 12:32 pm

General Chaos wrote:Awesome Australia got pumped by Turkey and nobody cared!

Get the blood for lube ready, there's more coming on Tues/Wed (Lithiuania/Greece).

Why do we need an Aussie coach? Look at the Socceroos. What the Boomers need is a coach who plays to their strengths and not one who tries to fit them into his system.

Texas · Post by **Texas** » 21 Aug 2006 12:46 pm

pilonv1 wrote:Why do we need an Aussie coach?

Cause we acutally have a lot of exellent basketball (and football) coaches here. Phil Smythe got the arse after losing a series to NZ when he was trying to blood new players to prevent us becoming stagnant when retirements set in. Bloody Brian Goorjian does the same thng and gets a pat on the back from BA! Without Bogut we would be getting pumped even more - the Comm games showed that.
Ever since the NBL went 'downsized' and went off free-to-air TV (and the NBA) the level of 'ball in this country had dropped, causer the kids don't wanna be like Mike/LeBron anymore, they are back to wanting to be (insert AFL/NRL/Wallaby/Socceroo name here)

And as a washed up old point guard with shagged knees who was THIS CLOSE to playing CBA... it all disgusts me now.

pilonv1 · Post by **pilonv1** » 21 Aug 2006 01:31 pm

Phil Smythe got the arse after losing a series to NZ when he was trying to blood new players to prevent us becoming stagnant when retirements set in

Smyth also picked a HORRIBLE team (Daniel Egan wtf?), albeit after a few retirements. NZ are a much better team now than they were then too. Goorjian also had a few injuries and unavailable players too. I'm not defending either of them because we shouldn't be losing to New Zealand. If Adrian Hurley was younger he's still the smartest guy in the country and would be great with these players. Sadly he's not and I dont think there's a coach of the required level to take over the team at this stage. I just dont think our coaches have the ability to adapt if their gameplan doesn't work.

Texas · Post by **Texas** » 21 Aug 2006 01:41 pm

Valid points, pilon, but I have one name for you...
Lindsay Gaze.
No, seriously. He NEEDS to be involved again, and NOW. He's the one who dragged Aussie ball into line with the rest of the world, perhaps its time to use his skills again, perhaps as a technical director? FIBA still consult the guy, and I even heard rumors that Coach K called him before the US went into camp...
Or maybe we need to accept that we are in rebuilding, and use this W/Champs as a step towards Beijing?

pilonv1 · Post by **pilonv1** » 21 Aug 2006 01:53 pm

Texas wrote:Lindsay Gaze.

I'd like to see him and Hurley involved in some way but I don't think either of them are choices for coach at the moment.

Or maybe we need to accept that we are in rebuilding, and use this W/Champs as a step towards Beijing?

Some people would say they did with the choices of Kendall and Barlow. I still am at a loss for words with Barlow representing Australia, he is a fine NBL player who can hit an open shot but he's not close to ready for international basketball, both physically and mentally. I don't think Kendall is mature enough either but the learning process here should make a huge difference for Beijing.

Personally I don't understand the lack of Daniel Kickert playing when it's obvious there's no one who can score consistently on this team. He's 6'10 and can shoot, he's a much better option than going small. Also Hinder would be a better choice defensively than Helliwell.

Texas · Post by **Texas** » 21 Aug 2006 02:06 pm

Kickert SHOULD have been in there, purely from the point of view of causing matchup problems. The rest of the world has gone big this world champs, and we have gone small. Another example of Brian G picking to his plan, not planning for the personel. Barlow is not an international player in my opinion at all. Whatever happened to the selection criterion of 'they have to be able to score and defend against NBA-level players?'

General Chaos · Post by **General Chaos** » 21 Aug 2006 02:56 pm

Texas nailed it with FTA broadcasting.

Basketball was big in Aust and growing at a massive rate then FTA went out the window etc etc and it just took a huge dive.

pilonv1 · Post by **pilonv1** » 21 Aug 2006 03:58 pm

Texas wrote:Barlow is not an international player in my opinion at all. Whatever happened to the selection criterion of 'they have to be able to score and defend against NBA-level players?'

Barlow isn't now. But he's young and I think he'll be worthy of his spot by 2008/10. It's not even NBA level players they need to matchup against - teams now have players with excellent all round skills at most positions. They're also quicker and faster.

The problem with Australian basketball is that it produces generic players. Look at the guards who come up through our junior ranks, they're all the same. Can shoot a bit, can dribble a bit, can pass a bit. Same with the forwards, they can score, shoot and rebound. But NONE of them have any unique skills, or are outstanding at any one skill. There are no pass first point guards, no strong defenders, no oustanding shooters. It almost seems at a junior levels that if someone is too good at something, it gets beaten into them that they wont make it unless they're good at everything and they should stop working on what their main talent is. That's fine but when you end up on a higher level of play, it gives our teams a very generic look.

Is it any wonder that the Boomers (and Kings) are primarily perimeter shooting teams when there isn't a penetrating, pass first point guard who can set up shots for others? Or a low post big man who can draw in defenders? How about a wing player who can slash to the basket or create his own shots? Luke Kendall is a fine player, but he's not a point guard. He's a two guard with good ball handling skills. At NBL level you can get away with that. Even if you look at the NBA, Detroit schooled everyone for two years because they had players with unique skills. Now other teams are realising that.

Sorry for the rant - it's just one of my pet peeves about the NBL.

brent · Post by **brent** » 21 Aug 2006 04:06 pm

I agree pretty much 100% about your points regarding the NBL.

Brad Newley is going to be an absolute gun though, I reckon he will be late 1st or early 2nd round draft pick in the NBA next year. He was close to joining the Clips this year.

Texas · Post by **Texas** » 22 Aug 2006 08:51 am

I still see him spending quality time in the D-League tho. Did he go to college?

brent · Post by **brent** » 22 Aug 2006 09:25 am

Nope.

Straight from the under 20 district contest in Adelaide to the NBL. Scouts have been watching him since he was like 16. He was MVP of the NBL All Star game as a rookie as far as I can remember.

The guy is amazing to watch and play against. His strength is probably his shot, but he is more than capable of driving the lanes and throwing it down hard. When he is on his game he is utterly unstopable. His major problem is his frame, he is very wiry still and doesn't have much bulk on him. Then again, most 20ish year olds dont. Doesn't matter so much in the NBL but in the NBA it really makes a huge difference.

Maybe D league for a year or two to build some size, either that or be at the end of the rotation for most teams straight up.