AFL Season 2006

[Froggy]

As I said before... while Adelaide's results have been valid for their luck with injuries... but history can be a cruel judge. If they don't pick up flag next year it will look bad.

And if they don't secure a decent ruck in the PSD they are in trouble.

Now... from an email sent to me... if AFL teams were women...

Did Brisbane not win each year with key personnel injuries? Did Port no win with key personnel injuries? It's a poor excuse especially when they were only missing 2 first choice players in that prelim.

[Darwi]

As I said before... while Adelaide's results have been valid for their luck with injuries... but history can be a cruel judge. If they don't pick up flag next year it will look bad.

And if they don't secure a decent ruck in the PSD they are in trouble.

Now... from an email sent to me... if AFL teams were women...

Did Brisbane not win each year with key personnel injuries? Did Port no win with key personnel injuries? It's a poor excuse especially when they were only missing 2 first choice players in that prelim.

Remind me again... why am I defending a team I don't even support.

And you need to be reasonable...

There are injuries and there are injuries... Adelaide went into the game without Ruccuito and Henstchel... and with McLeod and Burton running on half a tank. Hart was out... and they lost their first ruckman during the game. It was amazing that they actually set themselves up with a chance to win the game.

Even the awesome Lions teams would have struggled without Brown, Lynch, Voss, Bradshaw etc.

The stats clearly support the team with the fewest injuries coming into September... and the Swans and Eagles were running virtually full lists (but good on them... it's part luck and part management).

[Ambrose Burnside]

West Coast would be Kylie Minogue - very decent despite not having much up front.

A year out of date

It's funny how the Eagles were not considered premiership material (by certain members of this fine forum) when our mid-season form slump (which, by the way, only resulted in a handful of losses and the destruction of August premiers Adelaide) coincided with the loss of key personnel. Now that we're premiers it's was all good luck and list management

Adelaide is West Coast's bitch, regardless if they're at full strength or six goals up in a home preliminary final

[Peppermint Lounge]

No need for damage control, Ambrose. You're premiers (even you were saved by the siren with only a point to spare ).

I concur with the Essendon/Katie Holmes analogy. Hawks get off ambiguously though. Like it rough and dirty? I suppose there was that bizarre 2004 Ess v Hawks game culminating in Vandenberg and Picioane being suspended for something like 6 and 4 games respectively?

[Ambrose Burnside]

"Damage Control" is necessary even though we're premiers because certain individuals still do not rate us. Or more specifically, they don't rate our 23 year old full-forward who finished the year with 65 goals to his name in only his second year as a full-forward.

And I find this highly amusing

[Darwi]

West Coast would be Kylie Minogue - very decent despite not having much up front.

A year out of date

It's funny how the Eagles were not considered premiership material (by certain members of this fine forum) when our mid-season form slump (which, by the way, only resulted in a handful of losses and the destruction of August premiers Adelaide) coincided with the loss of key personnel. Now that we're premiers it's was all good luck and list management

Adelaide is West Coast's bitch, regardless if they're at full strength or six goals up in a home preliminary final

For someone with a premiership flag under their belt... you still remain awfully twitchy.

I didn't write the AFL team girly thing - but it does show that the footy world (outside of the sheltered workshop that is WA) don't rate the Eagles forward line.

Winning a Premiership is ALL about luck and list management. History is peppered with sides who missed their chance for reasons out (and in) of their control. The key is that good sides give themselves a period of time where they can win a flag (on the assumption that bad luck can't keep you down all the time).

For the record... I think West Coast are an excellent side. They deserved their flag this year. With a little more luck they could have been back to back this year... but also a little less luck and they could have been 0 and 2. Yes, they earned the chance to put themselves into the chance to win. They have also set themselves up with a chance to win more flags in the next few years.

But bottom line is that they don't have a premiership quality forward line. Their midfield and defense more than covers the problems... but they do have exploitable weaknesses.

That's life... even Judd - arguably the greatest player in the game has flaws.

I am a fanatical Hawthorn supporter... I live and breathe football (just ask my family)... but at least I am realistic. Ask me any Hawthorn player and I am just as capable of discussing their weaknesses as their strengths. Ambrose... can you do the same?

Damn... looks like a patient has arrived... may have to earn my money for a change...

[Darwi]

According to those who have peaked at the AFL draft 2K7...

Hawthorn vs West Coast at Aurora Stadium...

Looks like I picked a good year to move back to Tassie!

[Ambrose Burnside]

But bottom line is that they don't have a premiership quality forward line.

I would have thought a premiership quality forward line is one that wins the premiership. How many did Big Bad Barry kick in the Grand Final? How many did Lynch kick? Oh wait

You rated St Kilda's forward line as the best in the competition. St Kilda were knocked out in the first week of the finals, and they sacked their coach.

Brendan Fevola kicked more goals than anyone else this year, but Carlton "won" the wooden spoon.

If you had to rate the importance of the three parts of a football team (defence, midfield, forward line), then you have to rate it as:

1. midfield
2. defence
3. forward line

That's the way the Eagles see it. That's the way that wins premierships.

Of course, having a gigantic full-forward who can kick 60+ goals in a year helps

Eagles weaknesses? That's easy:

1) Small forward.

Phil Matera is impossible to replace, but Armstrong (favoured in the second half of this year), Sampi (who must be on his last chance) and LeCras (awesome talent) will fight for probably two places next year.

2) Ruck

Yes we have Big Cox, and yes Seaby is a pretty good backup, but if Cox gets injured we are screwed. Seaby can handle the responsibility, but if Cox is out then we rely on Lynch as his backup. As we saw several times this year: bye-bye forward line.

What I would like to see is Jaymie Graham bulk up a bit in order to hold down CHF, which will free up Adam Hunter even more

I didn't write the AFL team girly thing - but it does show that the footy world (outside of the sheltered workshop that is WA) don't rate the Eagles forward line.

That's because the rest of Australia knows nothing about the Eagles, only seeing them once or twice a year, and basing all their opinions on that. I kept saying everyone would be proven wrong, and whaddya know???

[Pat]

Winning a Premiership is ALL about luck and list management.

2000 had NOTHING to do with luck and EVERYTHING to do with the Premiers being a fucking mile ahead of the rest.

[Ambrose Burnside]

Winning a Premiership is ALL about luck and list management.

2000 had NOTHING to do with luck and EVERYTHING to do with the Premiers being a fucking mile ahead of the rest.

Nah, Darwi's right. Essendon fluked winning all but one game, just like Lynch pulled 65 goals out of his arse this year

Although, now that I think about it, maybe he means we're lucky with our list management. For example, Darwi's team Hawthorn could have had Chris Judd.

HAWTHORN ARE ONLY SHIT BECAUSE THEY'RE UNLUCKY

[SythBlade]

According to those who have peaked at the AFL draft 2K7...

Hawthorn vs West Coast at Aurora Stadium...

Looks like I picked a good year to move back to Tassie!

It also seems that Essendon will open the year playing the crows at AAMI and will end the year at subi in round 22 against the weagles.. hirds last game.. WA? thanks afl.

[Darwi]

I would have thought a premiership quality forward line is one that wins the premiership. How many did Big Bad Barry kick in the Grand Final? How many did Lynch kick? Oh wait

Even my 6yo argues with better logic than that.

By all means gloat re: the 2K6 flag (as is the right of all winning supporters)... but the rest is garbage.

You rated St Kilda's forward line as the best in the competition. St Kilda were knocked out in the first week of the finals, and they sacked their coach.

They do have the best forward line in the competition.

Unfortunately they can never get them on the park at the same time.

And they also couldn't overcome their other deficits (eg. lack of a decent ruck, pace in the midfield, strength in defense).

And regardless of their loss in the finals, or the sacking of the Coach... they still have (potentially / arguably) the best forward line in the competition.

Brendan Fevola kicked more goals than anyone else this year, but Carlton "won" the wooden spoon.

And your point is?

My point is that Fevolva = genuine forward and is capable of winning the Coleman at Carlton. Transplanted into the Eagles side and you have a 100+ goal Champion and an Eagles side that is elevated from very good to great (maybe even legendary).

If you had to rate the importance of the three parts of a football team (defence, midfield, forward line), then you have to rate it as:

1. midfield
2. defence
3. forward line

That's the way the Eagles see it. That's the way that wins premierships.

That's the way that has won A premiership.

It's hard to rate the components of the team in importance... and it depends a lot on who you have. Not all mid-fields have goal kickers - and then forward lines become more important to your team than defenders, etc. But on a whole I would largely agree with your rating of 1-3.

The difference I would add is that finals footy is different from home and away footy... and traditionally it is the sides with settled defenses and power forwards that do well. In this regard the Eagles are somewhat of an anomaly... but a sensational midfield / ruck combo helps... a lot.

Of course, having a gigantic full-forward who can kick 60+ goals in a year helps

Lynch is certainly gigantic... But he is not a full forward.

He plays as a forward flanker who likes to take uncontested marks on / outside the 50m arc. He suits this role because he is a sensational kick for goal from this distance.

60+ goals being spoon fed by the best midfield combination in the AFL... and the number of games at Subiaco... is a satisfactory pass mark in my book.

The Eagles could nominate almost anyone to play 22 games as the designated go to forward in that side... and that many goals would result.

But once again, I acknowledge his age / inexperience / signs of improvement.

Eagles weaknesses? That's easy

No argument with your points there... except to add that it would be very hard to develop a crumbing forward role in the current Eagles structure. With nobody who can control the ball in the air inside 50 how the Hell would you know where to run to get the spillage.

That's because the rest of Australia knows nothing about the Eagles, only seeing them once or twice a year, and basing all their opinions on that. I kept saying everyone would be proven wrong, and whaddya know???

I think you underestimate the rest of Australia's opinion re: The Eagles. And I think you also spend too much time reading the West Australian. To maintain my sanity through the footy season I get the Herald Sun delivered each day (albeit a day late). I also spent far too much time watching fox footy. Trust me, the Eagles get plenty of the limelight in the East.

And I don't think the Eagles have proven me wrong in any way. I still stand behind everything I have said all along...
a) The Eagles are a very, very good side.
b) They earnt and deserved their high ladder finish / second chance in the finals.
c) The Eagles weakness is their forward line set up (with is covered in most cases by their exceptional midfield set up).
d) The Eagles midfield is arguably top heavy... and would be no less functional if they passed off one of their big four.
e) If the Eagles addressed their lack of key position forwards they would be feared in similar terms to the recent Lions dynasty.

[Darwi]

Winning a Premiership is ALL about luck and list management.

2000 had NOTHING to do with luck and EVERYTHING to do with the Premiers being a fucking mile ahead of the rest.

The comment was made in terms of key injuries.

Every side has a few key players that are integral to team structure / game plan. If you are unlucky enough to lose those players at the wrong time, then it doesn't matter jack shite how good you could have been.

Except maybe Essendon of '84-'85. Nobody was ever going to beat those bastards.

[Darwi]

Although, now that I think about it, maybe he means we're lucky with our list management. For example, Darwi's team Hawthorn could have had Chris Judd.

HAWTHORN ARE ONLY SHIT BECAUSE THEY'RE UNLUCKY

Just for the record... more than happy with Luke Hodge.

And also... Hawthorn are currently shit because of good list management.

Patiently awaiting the next (brown and) golden era of 2009-2011.

[Ambrose Burnside]

The Eagles could nominate almost anyone to play 22 games as the designated go to forward in that side... and that many goals would result.

That's just rubbish. Apart from Scott Cummings and his 95 goals in 1999, we haven't had a decent (50-60 goals a year) full-forward since around 1994/1995 when Peter Sumich was playing regularly. And we've had our awesome midfield since 2002. We just needed a defence to appear (2005) and a full-forward (2006).

Even Fraser Gehrig was crap when he played for us.

The Eagles have a AAA midfield that kicks a lot of goals. We aren't over reliant on one or two forwards the way some lesser teams are.

The difference I would add is that finals footy is different from home and away footy... and traditionally it is the sides with settled defenses and power forwards that do well.

Apart from the FACT that no full-forward has kicked 5 goals or more in a grand final since Matthew Lloyd in 2001 (A LOSS). Lynch's 3 goals, one touched on the line and one customary spray out on the full is as close as anyone's come since then

You need to rank Lynch higher than you do, or downgrade the importance you attach to a "power forward" in your assessment of teams if Lynch doesn't fit the requirements.

[Darwi]

That's just rubbish. Apart from Scott Cummings and his 95 goals in 1999, we haven't had a decent (50-60 goals a year) full-forward since around 1994/1995 when Peter Sumich was playing regularly. And we've had our awesome midfield since 2002. We just needed a defence to appear (2005) and a full-forward (2006).

I would argue that your midfield has only really come into it's own in the last two to three years... largely with the emergence of Cox and the confidence gained by Kerr and Embley.

But maybe if you had some decent forwards in all those years you would have won some flags over that time

Even Fraser Gehrig was crap when he played for us.

So?

The Eagles have a AAA midfield that kicks a lot of goals. We aren't over reliant on one or two forwards the way some lesser teams are.

That we agree on... all I am saying is that if you did have some forwards you could rely on the Eagles would be nigh on unbeatable.

Apart from the FACT that no full-forward has kicked 5 goals or more in a grand final since Matthew Lloyd in 2001 (A LOSS). Lynch's 3 goals, one touched on the line and one customary spray out on the full is as close as anyone's come since then

If you are simply judging the role of key position forwards in terms of goals on the board - it's no wonder you want to have Quentin's babies.

Does physical presence mean anything?
The ability to bring the ball to ground and create opportunities for crumbers?
Game breaking contested marks?

Finals football is custom built for defenders... and goals are at a premium... even for the best forwards in the game. But it is also those types of players who create other opportunities. Sure, bags are rare... but few sides win flags without genuine power forwards.

And once again... kudos for West Coast for breaking the mould.

Personally I am fucking ecstatic they are going to continue with the status quo. Sure, they will still be favourites for the flag... but at least they have weaknesses for other teams to potentially exploit.

Teams respect the quality of the West Coast team... but I don't think anyone FEARS them.

You need to rank Lynch higher than you do, or downgrade the importance you attach to a "power forward" in your assessment of teams if Lynch doesn't fit the requirements.

I think Lynch has the potential to develop into a very good player.

But at the moment he is not a key position forward.

If the Eagles can fast track him into one... they will finally be the untouchables that Ambrose strokes himself about.

[Ambrose Burnside]

Agree to disagree.

Barry Hall

Height: 194cm
Weight: 102kg

Quinten Lynch

Height: 194cm
Weight: 102kg

All their other stats are remarkably similar too, apart from the six year age difference and Lynch's inability to choke in Grand Finals. I'm not sure how you can class one as a key forward but not the other. Oh well.

I am curious though, in Hawthorn's upcoming 'golden era' who will play in the key positions? Do they already play for the club?

[Darwi]

Hall vs Lynch... same physical stats but completely different playing style.

One of them provides a physical presence and is capable of taking a CONTESTED mark inside 50m. One is also generally creative in bringing the ball to ground if he can't take a mark.

If you watch the genuinely good key position players such as Hall in a marking contest... they are good at creating space around the pack for the runners... and then often bring the ball down to advantage.

Again, that doesn't mean that Lynch's game style is invalid... but he clearly doesn't play as a key position forward. I know you are a fan of Lynch... and that's ok... he plays as a pretty competant half forward type... but I'm not sure why you want to redefine the role of a key position player just for him.

I think the Eagles need a Hall type player. They either need to change Lynch's playing style... or (probably the best option) bring in such a player to complement Lynch.

I am curious though, in Hawthorn's upcoming 'golden era' who will play in the key positions? Do they already play for the club?

As for my beloved Hawks... thanks for asking.

The Hawks forward line looks like it will be built around;
- Williams as the leading forward.
- Roughead as the marking target at centre half forward.
- Franklin as the between type player roaming from wing / half-forward.

Williams has more than shown he is up to it... but Roughead and Franklin are both raw / young... and will need more time (hence the two to three years). It's all part of a definite rebuilding plan... starting in the 2004 draft where the Hawks surprised a few people by taking long term KPP types with picks #2 and #5.

In defense... obviously Croad is a stand out at centre half back... but we're a little light on at full back. We have a couple of potentials (such as Dawson)... but there is a long way to go. The Hawks tried hard to woo Thornton from Carlton (to no avail)... and have appointed Frawley as a specialist defensive coach to try and address the problem.

They are just kids... and being played way out of their depth for experience (at one stage vs Freo last year our entire spine had played less than 50 games between them)... but the potential is there.

It's an exciting time to be a Hawk fan.

[Ambrose Burnside]

FB: Campbell Brown, Zac Dawson, Danny Jacobs
HBF: Joel Smith, Trent Croad, Brent Geurra
C: Chance Bateman, Sam Mithcell, Grant Birchall
HFF: Shane Crawford, Lance Franklin, Richie Vandenburg
FF: Mark Williams, Jarryd Roughead, Ben Dixon
F: Peter Everitt, Luke Hodge, Jordan Lewis

As mentioned in the thread, there's some inaccuracies, but still

Source

[Darwi]

For Ben Dixon I would have just put the South Park Jesus.

[Ambrose Burnside]

Eagles' dynasty rises

ONCE the dust had settled on this year's epic Grand Final came the realisation.

As one rival assistant coach said the day after the Eagles premiership victory: "They'll win it next year as well."

Now that they have the monkey off the back, there is definitely a whiff of a dynasty, similar to what we saw from the Brisbane Lions, about this West Coast outfit.

Talent wise, across the board they are better than anyone in the competition so they have a significant headstart in the first place.

Throw in the Grand Final experience of the past two years and this ambitious bunch of Eagles looks set to make the last Saturday in September its own.

Trying to pick holes and find reasons why they'll slip up is hard, almost impossible. The old hangover is the only hope really. And given the way Andrew Embley, Ben Cousins and others can party, it might linger for a little while next season. But we're clutching at straws.

Normally there is a changeover of players in every premiership side, but this won't be the case with the Eagles because they are a young, developing team.

Defender Drew Banfield will be the only one hanging up the boots, and while he has been a great servant, his replacement in Mark Nicoski (injury cost him a spot in premiership team) is already ready to go.

There is simply no real deficiency. The Eagles are big, strong, quick, mobile, highly skilled, tough, hard, attacking . . . just too darn good.

Anyone with Chris Judd in its team is an automatic contender. Throw Dean Cox, Daniel Kerr, Cousins and Embley around him and no one can compare or compete.

The forward line is where those looking for holes focus. Last year's Grand Final exposed it badly but this year, with the "Big Unit" Quinten Lynch coming out of the goalsquare and an in-form Ashley Hansen working hard at centre half-forward, it looked dangerous and efficient.

Throw in damaging floater Adam Hunter, who won game after game this year when moved from defence to the goalsquare, and the mix is right particularly with the development of Steven Armstrong as the goalsneak given Ashley Sampi's disappearance.

There is talk that the Eagles have an interest in Collingwood's Chris Tarrant and it does make sense because another leading, marking option roaming Subiaco Oval would be the icing on the cake.

The other end doesn't need any work. All-Australian Darren Glass runs the backline with an iron fist -- just ask Barry Hall -- with great assistance from Hunter and the experienced Daniel Chick, who can play either end as well.

David Wirrpanda provides the skill, nous and rebound, while Beau Waters continues to do a good impersonation of his coach at half-back.

It has been the improvement of the likes of Waters, Sam Butler, Brett Jones and Adam Selwood who have pushed the Eagles up a notch this year.

The midfield doesn't even have to be spoken about because, unless you've been living in a tree house in Nepal, you may have heard the Eagles have the best of all time, even better than the Lions much-vaunted Fab Four of Michael Voss, Simon Black, Jason Akermanis and Nigel Lappin.

If you have any doubt about the future of John Worsfold's team, just look at those who couldn't get a game in the Grand Final.

Matt Rosa, Jaymie Graham and Brent Staker all played for the majority of the year but couldn't get a look in. They'd all work into any other team in the land.

So what needs to happen for the rest of the competition to bother turning up next year?

As terrible as this sounds, injuries are the only thing that can bring the Eagles back to the field. If Judd strikes some bad luck then the whole dynamic changes. But fingers crossed this doesn't happen.

The sad thing for Victorian clubs is that the only team that seems to be able to take on the Eagles at their game is Fremantle.

And given how they clicked this season, get your money on a WA derby GF next year.

Herald Sun > Darwi

[Ambrose Burnside]

Sydney captain Barry Hall has spoken for the first time on the Swans' epic one-point loss to West Coast in this year's Grand Final, declaring he will never talk to the media again about his own individual performances.

Hall, who's in line to captain Australia's International Rules team in Ireland, was extremely disappointed with the press he received after his Grand Final performance, adding that he is sick of people in the football media jumping on and off his bandwagon.

"One thing I did do, as a lot of people know, my mother keeps all of the (print) clips and I actually read them all and I've got a pretty long memory, so this is the first and last we'll hear about individual performances from me," Hall said in Killarney.

"I'll talk about team and everything else, but I've got a long memory.

"It's happened twice in a row now with finals series and there was two weeks last year when I didn't play the best and they were all over me - and that's fine - but you can't jump off and on too many times.

"Obviously being captain I've got to do my thing and talk about the team for as long as people want, but I've given up commenting on my performances - that's it."

Despite some "pretty full-on" hassling from a number of media outlets seeking an interview after the Grand Final, Hall initially stayed in Sydney after the loss before returning to Victoria to see family and friends.

He added that he "wasn't really in the mood to talk to anyone at that stage".

Hall said he did go over the loss "for a little bit" in the ensuing days and considered all the "ifs, buts and maybes".

"I'm not searching through the game thinking, what could I have done?" Hall said.

"The effort was there and I was trying to change it, but it just wasn't my day. I've been in games like that before where I keep working and it comes good, but it just didn't and what a day to do it.

"We wanted to win the game and a few things didn't come off for us and a few players didn't play the best and you can't play with 10 blokes against West Coast and beat them."

Hall said he had now moved on from the Grand Final, adding that he would never watch the match again.

"It was quite obviously disappointing … a couple of days there you feel sorry for yourself, but look, at the end of the day, I can't do anything about it, but I'm really looking forward to the pre-season now and cracking back into it," Hall said.
And what about the snorkel on the head during Sydney's mad Monday? Hall said it was simply some light relief after the Grand Final.

"I was in good spirits that day," Hall said with a laugh.

"We went all night and we went back to Adam Schneider's place and there was a snorkel there and it ended up on my head for the day."

Go watch the game again you big bald baby, Big Lynch will show you how a real key forward performs on the biggest stage of all.

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=rjRjmOb4KBo[/youtube]



Hall hasn't copped anything near what Lynch copped last year FROM HIS OWN SUPPORTERS

I'd love to see what a big baby like Hall would do if he played for us when the media once again gets hold of the wretched hive of scum and villainy that is the West Coast Eagles over summer