Mechs toys

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Re: Mechs toys

Post by GameHED »

Lame idea from sony.._Here's a better one:
The next Transformers movie should be about how the decepticons actually won and humans have to migrate to cybertron because the NWO teamed up with Megatron to spy on all the humans on earth using SMART device:
The BEAST system is almost complete. The RFID is just your confirmation that you publicly accept the Beast as your god. Megatron is not an AI but leader of the tech giants who is the chief reptilian. See the old Beast Wars cartoon for his dragon form to understand this.(satan is the Red dragon that was thrown out of heaven on to earth of the bible and was defeated)
This planet belongs to the apes.
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Re: Mechs toys

Post by GameHED »

Hasbro doomed:
the star wars toys are not selling and we all know it's the old fans of star wars that liked the OT (fully grown adults that never grew up) that are buying toys not little girls who watch Star Wars Force Awaken or TLJ:
My advice is Disney reboots star wars and does a total remake of the OT in CG. You use more cartoon-looking visuals instead of realistic ones and put it on direct to video market as the official reboot. This way new toys can be made, add in new characters, and make games that are akin to final fantasy in how the world operates. (that is to say each new trilogy takes place in a different part of the galaxy with new characters just like how each new final fantasy game is a new story with new characters but the difference is in the star wars reboot they all share the same galaxy. There are heroes all over the galaxy in different systems)

By rebooting the entire franchise, they can ignore all the crappy star wars movies and this time get the fan feedback to be involved. (eg this could mean characters like Darth Vader are less emo than what george lucas gave to us with the prequel movies where he came off too whiny and not assertive and badass) My idea is this: Get the marvelcinematic universe team to remake the original trilogy and see how that goes. (they know how to do good soap opera stuff in a fantasy setting - avengers movies are proof with so many A list actors involved in an orgy of action and drama)

We don't need overpaid actors for the reboot. Go back to a slightly more B-level movie feel to it like the last Judge Dredd movie where it feels more like we are watching a 1980s fantasy flick and make it more kiddy again. (I'm sorry old guys but one day you will die off of old age and the future of toy sales is really not in $300 statues but reintroducing new kids to cool things but making the toys affordable - toys stores are dying do you hear me? Thanks to these feminists hijacking it. Mark did his best be he failed to wrestle the higher ups which basically wrote his character out of the franchise to kill him off)

With the Transformers for instance hasbro has the cartoons that keep the story grounded into whatever kids think is cool. It's not aimed at teenagers like the live action transformers movies by michael bay with sex jokes. This is why I think going full blown CG is the future of SW if they really want the whole yearly movie thing. CG animation allows you to do things like have interesting light saber duels that look amazing without the actors looking out of place (eg seeing an old man like count dookoo doing somersaults is really odd). The Yoda light saber duel against the Sith lord in the prequel trilogy however is one example of fun CG fights! (yoda not being a puppet means he can bounce around like spiderman or a crazy frog and it actually makes sense)

When there is enough money made from the OT reboot/remake, they can get the franchise valuable again for a new kid audience, (much like Gundam which ended up having multiple shows that are not part of the Universal Century timeline) and gradually grow back the appeal they lost when people started seeing leia flying in space without any force training in The Last Jedi. Face it: That really pissed off a lot of people because it means all the past stories make no sense now. Eg why did luke need to seek out yoda for training if leia already has the force without any need to work hard to gain powers? It hurts the legitimacy of past stories because it means jedi are not badasses in combat but just regular people who didn't need training. It's like being told Batman was merely gifted with the knowledge of martial arts and all his skills were granted to him when he connected his brain to the matrix to instantly learn all the combat techniques for free. That makes him less appealing because anyone can be batman now right?

By rebooting you give yourself a chance to launch the side stories that might not have fit in well with existing universe. So what we have is the classic OT star wars universe. And the reboot universe. The reboot universe can be the one that is less rigid. (ie they can play with the idea that the jedi were merely one group that had force powers and that there are many other religious orders like them that also have access to it too) While the classic universe is the one that fans of the 70s and 80s movies can continue to enjoy. (with new live action movies every few years with big budget to back the more realistic fx)
Star Wars may be dead for the old timers who will stick purely to OT toys only. But that doesn't mean toy sales are dead if Disney take my idea into account and do a reboot. Gundam sucessfully was able to do this and there are many shows other than the Universal Century shows (the one originally started by Yoshiyuki Tomino in the late 70s) that exist alongside the original one. And If george Lucas could be seen as Star Wars' "Yoshiyuki Tomino" for Star Wars, then future directors can be seen as the head of their own universe which takes the 'cool' ingredients of the first one that was originally made to expand the Star Wars franchise beyond the George Lucas classic universe.

One of the advantages of Disney doing this would be that the star wars franchise might finally appeal to the chinese market because you wouldn't have to have knowledge of the original movies of the past. The reboot is the future for the kids growing up today. The toys will sell easily because once a younger audience is familiar with the characters (which always must be cool for them to like this - remember that! no more losers. Kids are not going to buy action figures of losers FFS) the franchise will be recognisable in the foreign market. (where people may not be as familiar with old movies from the 70s coming out of the west)

This is how you repair star wars in the long term. Planning a new universe or reboot. In the reboot, you can explore less rigid lore than the established one made by George Lucas and not offend people so much.
The advantages:
-less need to know anything about the 70s and 80s movies to enjoy the current movie
-the creator of the new universe has total control over characters
-nobody gets angry that the new creator is shitting all over the sacred stuff of the George Lucas movies(because they are seperate)
-toys will sell to kids growing up today who have different ideas about what is cool. (just like how people from different generations have their own music of the time
-you can milk the older fans who want more new stories from the original george lucas universe while introducing kids to new star wars universe that is essentially reboot of original one but with less rigid lore to have to follow (easier on the new guys because they may not know absolutely everything about star wars)
-the merchandise and profit of having more than one universe (hasbro today sells toys from classic transformers tv shows form the 1980s G1 cartoon, along with toys of the michael bay Transformers movies, along with toys from the current transformers today. That's 3 different toylines. Why isn't Disney thinking about this for Star Wars? ie toys from classic GL movies, and whatever future reboot universe made by new creators under the star wars franchise)

The bottom line is reboot makes sense. Battlestar Galctica was one such success. The human-lookng infiltration type cylons was a great addition to an old classic. The current wars seem to focus on anti-terrorism. Perhaps they could create a whole Star Wars universe where the Empire actually makes more sense as the good guys and the bad guys are the religious fundamentalists killing people for not agreeing with them? This adds a twist to the star wars universe without shitting all over the original star wars which was a world war II story set in space. What they could do is have a character who was once a religious guy be the emperor that controls everything and he turns back to being a religious guy again because people want more individual freedom and liberty and feel safer without "protection" because they can't afford the high taxes due to people being lazy and not getting paid enough money when they do serve the empire which itself is crumbling due to corruption?
I think that is a story that needs to be told now. The empire will fall due to it's own corruption like Rome did. Base it on Stefan Molyneux video series about the parrallells of the fall of the ancient Roman Empire with modern western nations.
(hint: spread too thinly, not enough money, death of masculinity)
I think they could hire Camille Paglia to be involved with that project as a counterpoint to the feminist star wars stuff. :D
Because people turned to homosexuality and nobody had family, the government imported foreigners to fill in for the local population declining, and then nobody felt loyal to the emperor or to any kings because they sold out the locals by giving all the jobs to the foreign people who can afford to work for less money because they are used to lower standard of living and the cost of living is less. This culture war is what killed the empire. George Lucas could make an unofficial sequel to star wars under a different name and then sell this idea to disney. His final body of work would be to turn the empire into a victim. Not because the barbarians were good enough to beat the empire but because the lack of respect for codes of conduct, bringing back the age where morals had to make a comeback and people who are strong enough to resist temptation were able to conquer the empire because they don't betray basic principles) In this universe the Droids would be the strong athiests. Not necesarily bad, not necessarily good. They are just logical and rational being that can not see the force so they can't understand the spiritual religions because their sensors are blocked. (they are basically like the chinese factory worker who is into communism and worship of the state. Some droids become "self aware" and turn rogue and start becoming spiritual and being force wielders. They might be the equivalent of persecuted christians in nations where religious freedom is not an option by the state and have to hide themselves and go Monk. What you get is a robot martial artist who modified and hacked himself to reach higher purpose other than working for the emperor as a slave and fighting only for peaceful missions. Sort of like Iron Man mixed with Doctor Strange but even more overpowered: they cannot physically die because they can "re-incarnate" into a new body. IE copy their consciousness into another replacement body at will which effectively make them immortal like Motoko Kusunagi in Ghost in the Shell.

However the moral of the story is this: immortality doesn't mean you can't die spiritually. You just have to kill the soul ie delete the consciousness in the cloud. It's not the same immortality as the real God of the universe) If George Lucas can make one more Star Wars movie, it should be a spiritual successor to star wars. (as an unofficial sequel that tackles the problem of today where people place too much faith in materialism and the greed and narcissism eventually leads to inevitable war because they lack spiritual wisdom of past teachings from ancient times by wise men that had already been living in hi-tech civilisations that forgot old fashioned morals) When the wars begin people use hacks and mods, (ideas or thoughts which the filters do not approve of) and have to fght in the cyber realm of the galactic network. (the internet in space) The winners of these battles converts the other droid and then obtains the power to go against his original programming. The fight was never physical but in the network, using the ideas to help the brainwashed. The physical wars only happen when the empire is attacked from outside threats. This is when people go back to wanting physical security again and a strong dictator to show might. But it's when empire gets out of control that causes it collapse. (unfair weights and measures, the banks rip everyone off)
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad." -Shigeru Miyamoto
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Re: Mechs toys

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Been a while since I bought a Bandai Macross toy but this convinced me to ditch the small toy for the big ones:
The Bandai DX VF-1 transformation guide:

Note: this is 1/48 scale just like the old Yamato toys from the early 2000s. From what I remember the old yamato 1/48 VF-1 didn't have the double jointed elbow joint thing that the 1/60 scale yamato ones had. So you can consider this the definitive 1/48 right now. If you own the old 1/48 yamato this would beat it in terms of posability.

Detailed text review of the toy here from the video author:
http://anymoon.com/blog/?p=12016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Might have to sell some of my other older stuff for this toy. I think the appeal of the VF-1 is the lack of shit hanging off it in robot mode. Shoji KAwamori is a good mech designer but sometimes the bot mode suffers from being too gangly and with bits hanging off the body. I miss the bot modes of the 80s.

Related:
review from pinoi78:
forbes review:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarde ... 63812a3be3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Shoji Kawamori interview (2015) on what inspired him to make the coolest and most realistic mecha for anime:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarde ... 955dcc3a0f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Mechs toys

Post by lestat »

I recently went on a massive Transformers buying spree. I've always loved them, my favorite toy/series from my childhood, many of my old G1 toys were lost or destroyed due to the harshness of time.

I always wanted to build a nice mega collection and I came across the prime wars series, with lots of great designs that modernized G1 versions of my favorite characters.

I'll post some pics when it's all setup, still waiting for many figures to arrive still.
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Re: Mechs toys

Post by Froggy »

Yeah getting a hold of power of the primes toys was difficult. I grabbed the Dinobots because they were the best version of them since G1 ones and I refuse to buy knock offs. Also got some of the little Primes like Vector Prime etc. If you are ebaying etc yeah just lookout for chinese knockoffs.
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Re: Mechs toys

Post by lestat »

I have mostly bought originals from reputable local sellers, bought a lot of stuff off https://www.thelittletoycompany.com.au/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; they seem to have a lot of stock. But I do have some knocks offs coming in the mail, mostly combiner figures for superion/defensor/bruticus/volcanicus/devastor. I've spent over 2k on figures, so yeah it gets pricey, I had to draw a line, coming late to the party makes it hard to find all of them without spending $400-500 on the set.

I'm not even sure I have the space for the combiners.

I have all the G1 movie cast ordered(Rodimus prime/Kup/Blurr/Arcee/Magnus/Galvatron/Cyclonus/Scurge/wheelie/wreck-gar/sharticon), just short a Springer now, it's my last one. God bless ebay.

There are lots of impressive looking 3rd party ones, I'm gob smacked how huge the market is for them.

Really like the look of of the new Siege line, I will be filling out some missing pieces from that line too. I see stores are now just starting to get wave 1 now.
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Re: Mechs toys

Post by Froggy »

You can find a lot of g1 characters in re-releases (lots not cheap) official ones from Takara and Hasbro. Devastator was not too long ago same with Predaking. Trypticon g1 was released too recently as well as a bunch that went into Walmart I think made their way into our stores via Cotton On of all places (except Rodimus).

The Masterpieces are my favourite line up though besides G1's. The detail and the design to get them to transform with such detail is pretty damn good and they are solid too unlike the new plastic ones. Something that was good with the Prime ones is that they seemed a step up in quality from a lot of the Transformers toys now with loose limbs and weak plastics. The only issue with the masterpieces is the price just makes it hard to justify on most of them, I think Beast Wars Megatron came out not long ago and was something like $399 at my local hobby toy store, can't justify that.
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Re: Mechs toys

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Lestat I recommend you check out the masterpiece line. It's to me the definitive stuff from the G1 show because these toys have the most amount of details and accuracy to the show in terms of sculpt.

The thing to keep in mind is if you like army building it's cost prohibitive to get all the bigger toys but it works for the retail stuff which although cheaper and less detailed, from a distance you can have a squad displayed and usually all the weapons are interchangable.
The last two toys I bought from transformers was power of the primes grimlock and jazz. Two of my fave characters.
I have most of my stuff packed in boxes but display macross toys. I do not have time to build model kits and I really wish the chogokins were a lot easier to get. I have to flip between having lot of smaller stuff vs big stuff with details.

Biggest macross toy I own is the Bandai MKII Monster. It's so iconic. All it does is sit on its butt shooting the big cannons and cutting up zentrad ship from long range. But it's the only destroid not seen to be useless cannon fodder.

I grew up watching macross/robotech and I think the appeal of the fictional machines is how they make sense in real life visually. You can make a model of a valkyrie and fly one and it will take to the air. You can't say that about the chunky gundam robots which have a half arsed glider mode for atmospheric re-entry. It's a genuine icon from the 1980s when robot shows from japan were finally jumping from children's tv programs into more adult science fiction territory. (ie dudes can die and young people get promoted to high rank early, robots can lose big time and be destroyed and require repairs, need re-arming, refueling and maintenance with crews to assist them loading up weapons and developing the add on weapons,... and power is not how you always beat the bad guy but strategy and tactics can avoid casualty and conserve power if you are fighting in weaker position)

This was the birth of the "real robot" genre of science fiction animes when pilots were just like you or me and don't need expert flying ability because the manueverability of the future vehicles is so good and you can dodge out of anything being thrown at you with ease. But even with the high tech you know the characters are in danger because the machines are not invincible so there is genuine tension in battle which you don't see in the kids robot shows from the 1970s. Armored Trooper Votoms and Gundam started the trend (of making robots a mass production weapon that is easy to take down) and then Macross basically stole the light from these shows with cool dogfighting and robot fights. (at close range pilots kill giant enemies with precise machine gun shots with robot mode, and can scramble in jet fighter mode to deal with lighter aircraft and then without need of a landing strip they can land in style in GERWALK mode to cruise around in a crazy bird form. There was nothing else like that before. 3 modes of attack mode which made dedicated robots look obsolete. And the hero mechas transformation are not presented as a disguise or gimmick just to sell toys to kids, but there is a detailed story surrounding it which created a unique feel to the show where pilots kill at close range inside ships as well as long range at high speed all in one action scene)
Last edited by GameHED on 29 Jan 2019 07:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Mechs toys

Post by lestat »

I was looking at masterpiece versions, saw many reviews and it seems they have their fair share of quality/design issues and they're still plastic molds.

I found the power of the primes/legends to be a good compromise, decent looking designs, modern styling, complex transformations and reasonable pricing.

I might grab a masterpiece down the line, but it's not a line where you can go all Pokémon and collect em all.

Combiner wars devastator and predaking are too big for me, I just don't have display room for a 60-70cm bot. 30-35cm combiners are still manageable on most book shelving. That's why I got the ko devastator, it stands at 30cm which is what I like, G1 reissue devastator looks pretty basic and dull, also its pretty short against leader class bots.
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Re: Mechs toys

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That's why I like small toy with high detail. (saves space) But a big toy from a show you are a big fan of is a better display piece as fine detail pops out at you better. That's why I am split.
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Re: Mechs toys

Post by Froggy »

I have found nearly all the masterpieces I've had to be pretty good quality wise. I got original Megatron which is flimsy as, have trouble keeping it together in gun mode which I tried to display it in. Other then that maybe a few that have car mirrors that detach being the main issue, they can disappear but all the others pretty sweet.
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Re: Mechs toys

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Here's some of mine, got various others around the place, Fortress Maximus, Titans returns Metroplex, another G1 Metroplex and a few on my desk. The used to be arranged better but my 5 year old worked out through various chairs etc how to get to the 2nd top so I do have all the G1 planes but he's moved them and the bottom shelve you can see where the evidence gets quickly returned lol.

Image
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Re: Mechs toys

Post by Froggy »

GameHED wrote:That's why I like small toy with high detail. (saves space) But a big toy from a show you are a big fan of is a better display piece as fine detail pops out at you better. That's why I am split.
What I appreciate with the masterpieces is the fan service of putting in with them little touches. Like Spike in a space suit, little versions of megatron as a gun with guys who shot him, kremzig with Megatron etc. I also like the Jap reissues from like 2006ish that Hasbro did most of but the Japanese ones had little books etc with them and really well presented good packaging for displaying etc. I got most of those but I take them out the box and put the boxes in the roof.
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Re: Mechs toys

Post by Froggy »

Also just as I think of it, randomly like Myer had reissues of G1 sets last year I think it was, the insecticons, 3 of the planes in a pack and a g1 dinobot pack which were in g1 colours (looked shit). Something to keep an eye out for.
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Re: Mechs toys

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Froggy wrote:I have found nearly all the masterpieces I've had to be pretty good quality wise. I got original Megatron which is flimsy as, have trouble keeping it together in gun mode which I tried to display it in. Other then that maybe a few that have car mirrors that detach being the main issue, they can disappear but all the others pretty sweet.
Was not a fan of the skinny legs in robot mode of that megatron. The newer release was a much better accurate sculpt of the character from the toon:
If you ever decide to get masterpiece Lestat, this is the one to go looking for. (out of nostalgia mostly. I think the Tank version of Megs is the best one) Also if the collapse ever comes you can rob your neighbour for food, guns and ammo in a mad max scenario by holding them at gunpoint. Alternatively if you can't get this guy go for combiner wars megatron:
the silver paint is nice and makes this toy stand out and look expensive. Have never seen that much of it on a toy ever. :up: Transformation on this toy is simple, the face sculpt is G1 ish and both modes look awesome. If you are good at modding toys you might be able to do something about hiding the shoulder extension that sticks out like a sore thumb.

Didn't know about this but this toy had an upgrade kit for robot mode (doesn't do much for me to be honest):
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Re: Mechs toys

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Froggy wrote:
GameHED wrote:That's why I like small toy with high detail. (saves space) But a big toy from a show you are a big fan of is a better display piece as fine detail pops out at you better. That's why I am split.
What I appreciate with the masterpieces is the fan service of putting in with them little touches. Like Spike in a space suit, little versions of megatron as a gun with guys who shot him, kremzig with Megatron etc. I also like the Jap reissues from like 2006ish that Hasbro did most of but the Japanese ones had little books etc with them and really well presented good packaging for displaying etc. I got most of those but I take them out the box and put the boxes in the roof.
Not to mention that they are based on the real vehicles and licensed. IF you transform them to car mode they can pass as model of the car. Nobody has to know it can turn into a robot when they look at it. Many retail toys skip on paint application and don't fully paint the detail in and the alt mode ends up looking fake. A masterpiece is literally a model kit quality detail but with sturdy toy materials. You get fine details you don't get from normal leader class toys. (example interior details in car mode, gaps are covered up with covering plates, parts that are normally hollow are filled in with things to give the robot mode a solid build, the rubber tyres to grip the surface, fully articulated hands instead of a chunk of plastic with a hole in it, comic book or toon accurate body proportions (very important if you are using this as a display piece). Normal toys seems to have a plastic budget where if they use up a certain amount they take from something else eg if the figure is large he has a tiny pistol, or if the figure is skinny they give him dual weapon or a big accessory. MP do not skimp on giving you everything needed to complete the project. It's like having model kit of the character from the cartoon that really transforms and is accurate to the lineart that you see in the animation which an animator refer to for accurate dimension when drawing the character. No limit on the budget. If they have to make something look a certain way because that's how it was in the show, they don't limit what material is needed like with mass produced toys. You are buying something that doesn't compromise to fit a certain budget. From a distance these toys don't look any different from regular ones. But when you look at them closely there is tons more details that if you were to zoom in with camera these would stick out sharply and look accurate if you did a close up of the real object.
Eg on the bandai chogokins the dashboard is exactly what it look like in the cockpit of the cartoon. Another example: if you take coverings off of the toy the internal details is sculpted even if you never get to see it most of the time. (this is true with many macross toys for example inside the head unit you can see the sensors and camera eye behind the visor and even take the cover off as seen in the show when the repair crews are working on it - only hardcore fans of the mech would look for that stuff while the normie would barely notice because they are not autistic enough like the kid in The Predator remake movie)
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Re: Mechs toys

Post by lestat »

Nice setup Froggy, looking great, you have quite a few G1 classics. :up:

I started putting some of my figures in the book shelf and slowly realized I'm going to need a few more shelves. :D

Gamehed, I have the combiner wars tank Megatron coming, I think he looks great and his alternate mode is easier to display. I have smaller mech fans toys megatron that turns into a gun coming too, I also bought the titans return megs that's the blitzwing remold.

I might have to get a MP36 and MP44 later on, they do look bloody excellent.

Here is what I bought.

Autobots:

Power of the primes Optimus
Power of the primes Blaster
Power of the primes Rodimus Prime
Combiner Wars Magnus
Takara Jetfire
titans return Optimus
Takara Perceptor
Junk Clash hotrod/Wreck-Gar
VW movie Bumble bee
titans return bumble bee
power of the primes Jazz
titans return kup
titans return hot rod
titans return blurr
titans return wheelie
titans return windblade
takara legends Arcee
titans return rewind
dinobots
protectobots
arialbots
last knight optimus
last knight drift
oversized last knight steelbane

Decepticons:

Combiner wars megatron
titans return megatron
titans return soundwave
Combiner wars Starscream
Combiner wars Thundercracker
Combiner wars Skywarp
titans return galvatron
titans return cylconus
titans return scourge
titans return blitzwing
titans returns insecticons
WJ devastator
Bruticus + shockwave
Power of the primes Nemesis Prime
Power of the primes Rodimus Unicronus
MFT megatron
classics starscream
skarticon gnaw
last knight megatron
last knight nitro

Currently eyeing up titans return Astrotrain on ebay, I think I need him, also have generations springer on my watch list.

I also picked up the G1 TV complete series remastered.

https://www.madman.com.au/catalogue/vie ... on-fatpack" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Madman have the extended Japan G1 series for really cheap. That's where I bought it, the us G1 set is cheaper on amazon.com.au.

https://www.madman.com.au/catalogue/vie ... collection" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit: just bought Astrotrain and Springer, think I'm sort of done now for the time being. Will check out the siege line as they come out.
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Ambrose Burnside
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Re: Mechs toys

Post by Ambrose Burnside »

Last night I finished putting together Lego Voltron and he's freaking awesome.

Each lion as they are individually built:

Image

When combined to form Voltron:

Image

And with a game case to give you an idea of just how big he is fully assembled:

Image
Currently playing: Age of Empires 2: Definitive Edition (PC), Far Cry 4 (PC), FIFA 23 (Series X)
Froggy
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Re: Mechs toys

Post by Froggy »

Sick, I want to get it but not sure where I'd stick it and then do I have it in Voltron form or as lions, I dunno!
Vzzzbx, you lose again!
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Ambrose Burnside
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Joined: 04 Jul 2006 09:15 pm
XBL ID: AmbroseBurnside
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Location: Perth, WA

Re: Mechs toys

Post by Ambrose Burnside »

Froggy wrote:Sick, I want to get it but not sure where I'd stick it and then do I have it in Voltron form or as lions, I dunno!
Heh, I've seen reviews where they say they're going to buy two so they can have it displayed both ways at the same time :lol:

I have him in robot form on my desk guarding my router haha.
Currently playing: Age of Empires 2: Definitive Edition (PC), Far Cry 4 (PC), FIFA 23 (Series X)
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