The Official Thread of Seeking the Truth.

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GameHED
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Post by GameHED »

tin foilers sniff something strange about the CCTV cameras being shut off:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread450449/pg1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This does seem a little odd for the more paranoid.. what have they got planned? Why would they suddenly decide to stop spying when these are the same people that like to play victim so much to the masses? So many interesting possiblities.. Could they be worried that if something violent happens those who get unfairly treated by officials won't have the proof to show use of excessive force? Or they just want to show they are ready for olympics so it's like a message saying "we are constantly maintaining security and upgrades to show we are in control"?
IMO, What really differentiates this protest from the RNC and the DNC here in the states is the fact that the public over there now has no legal ground to stand on when it comes to taping officers while doing their job.
..peaceful protesters being tasered to death just for being in the area..no one to film it. Mainstream media report their version of what happened. Very clever.
I hope lots of people bring their own camcorders to the G20 meeting so it is all recorded. Unfortunately the new law just passed makes anybody bringing a camcorder a possible terrorist; isn't it nice how they treat those poor UK people. There needs to be many people there with camcorders, so the police can't stop all of them from getting the goods on what all takes place at the G20 meeting.
My prediction being that is a false flag thing happens, they can blame everything on the people that were protesting. Or it's just them setting up a trap for the anarchists who want to be violent and catch them while they expect them to start trouble. (bait and switch) Just seems a little fishy.
This smell's so funky I wouldn't be anywhere near the city centre... probably to the excel centre is the closest I'd get now THAT place will be safe!!

I remember other day's when CCTV has been down.... 9/11/01.... 7/7/05 "sorry can't identify the bombers at the station, CCTV was down" plus all the police we're called into central London exercise that day too -they don't mind putting the police in the firing line either - they have the army for backup....

01&02/04/09 .... It looks like it could be bigger than any of us hoped. AT least the signs are being picked up early, so if/when it happens we can direct more and more to the truth.
They so need the excuse to rape people of freedoms they once had, through spreading more fear. This looks to be an opportunity to play victim. Cause as much chaos as they can, so they can bring in more order (under the guise of protecting) and increase power to the few at the top of this pyramid who have their puppets enslaved. It's nothing new.
reply posted on 30-3-2009 @ 01:06 PM by TheNeverSlaves


If anyone is worried about their photos not being seen, I work for a mobile photo sharing company called SnapMyLife, and I am the system moderator. This could be a safe haven for all photos at the G20, I have been asking British users all day if they will be at the protest and none have confirmed. If anyone wants the photos taken to be housed instantly on a non-government server ours would be a good one to use...just to make sure you know I'm not whoring my company, there is also Radar, Zannel, Treemo, and Natuba. We all do the same thing and your photos would be secure either way.

Hope this helps.
Everyone who wants justice needs to be like Batman in the dark knight stopping criminals by spying on them illegally to prevent innocents getting hurt.
They shut them down for a reason alright. Everything there would have been on camera. Then all of a sudden right before the event there is a resolution issue.

More like an attack on protestors that the cops don't want shown on CCTV.

I told you, they are going to have a few OFF duty cops under disguise as protestors who will start fights with the On duty officers which will allow all hell to break loose on the peaceful protestors.

They did this in Denver CO. during the election conventions.

They shut those cameras off so they can go ahead with the murder of protestors. My guess is that no less than 80 to 100 will be killed and about a thousand or more injured.

Their next stage against silencing the truth and freedom. Make the people fear going into public and speaking out.

It is all about intimidation, fear and control
Maybe the violent protesters just dress up as cops and beat up the undercover fake protesters like the joker did in TDK? Like I say.. so many possibilities. Nobody knows absolutely everything.
'They' obviously don't want the world to witness what they plan to do to protestors whom don't bow down to the 'Order'. Then they will use the CCTV cameras of which were turned off as an excuse for the NEED for them. These people assume the masses are too ignorant to see their hand. Truth is, 'their' hand will become their worst enemy.

The best thing these criminals can do for themselves at this point in time is to retire to a distant location and take up a new hobby asap. World domination of the monetary system and world's resources will ultimately fail. Their game is up. They are scattering about as chickens with their heads cut off looking to achieve 'Closure' to achieving their End.
Problem, reaction, solution.
create problem, expect emotional kneejerk reaction from masses "why didn't the government do something about this?" or shills who provide security "this could have been avoided if you heeded my warnings to change the failing system", solution: grab even more powers away from the innocent law abiding people by making it easy to treat them like criminals, to condition them to accept slavery. Call in military to kill all jews, kill all arabs, kill ron paul suporters, kill people that look suspicious but who haven't done anything wrong....then film it to masses to shock people into submission.
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GameHED
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Post by GameHED »

All police who are against the increasing powers of federal government and loss of individuals rights in these times, should go to this guy's site and read his book and spread the word.

To fight for your rights you've got to get together and start getting educated and know what power you have.
The Office of Sheriff traces its origins to tenth century England and is firmly rooted in the common law. It is the oldest law enforcement office known within the common law system and is accorded dignity and high trust. The American Colonies adopted the Office of Sheriff and the position evolved into that of, ”Chief Law Enforcement Officer,” in nearly all states. Today, the Office of Sheriff protects the citizenry in 3084 American counties.

As the chief and only elected law enforcement officer, the Office of Sheriff is unique in that the Sheriff is accountable “directly to the people.” This allows the Sheriff the freedom to speak out on matters affecting criminal justice and public safety.

The Office of Sheriff has existed in Washington since the formation of the Washington Territory in 1853. The Office of Sheriff is established by Article XI, Section 5 of the Washington State Constitution. The major duties of the Office of Sheriff are prescribed in Section 38.28.010 of the Revised Code of Washington and include the following:

The sheriff is the chief executive officer and conservator of the peace of the county. In the execution of his office, he and his deputies:

(1) Shall arrest and commit to prison all persons who break the peace, or attempt to break it, and all persons guilty of public offenses;

(2) Shall defend the county against those who, by riot or otherwise, endanger the public peace or safety;

(3) Shall execute the process and orders of the courts of justice or judicial officers, when delivered for that purpose, according to law;

(4) Shall execute all warrants delivered for that purpose by other public officers, according to the provisions of particular statutes;

(5) Shall attend the sessions of the courts of record held within the county, and obey their lawful orders or directions;

(6) Shall keep and preserve the peace in their respective counties, and quiet and suppress all affrays, riots, unlawful assemblies and insurrections, for which purpose, and for the service of process in civil or criminal cases, and in apprehending or securing any person for felony or breach of the peace, they may call to their aid such persons, or power of their county as they may deem necessary.
http://www.co.whatcom.wa.us/sheriff/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The following history of the office of sheriff is provided by the National Sheriff's Association publications.
Western Sheriff Gear The office of sheriff is the oldest political office in the western world. It has existed in one form or another since the reign of King Alfred the Great (871-901 A.D.). The office of sheriff evolved from a rudimentary method for providing local control and services under the monarchy to an arm of democratic government fully invested in the constitutional pursuit of justice. Significantly, it has remained a fundamentally local institution.

The roots of the office of sheriff may be found in Anglo-Saxon England. Families came together in groups of ten families. They were called tithing. The leader of these groups were called tithing men, who were elected by each tithing. He had the responsibility of raising the Hue and Cry (a process in which every able-bodied man had to participate in the chase and apprehension of offenders; this was the origin of today's citizen's arrest).
http://www.delawarecountysheriff.org/history.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
During the great westward expansion of the United States, the sheriff was installed in every territory and state. The sheriff followed near on the heels of the pioneers who settled the areas. Violence was a common problem on the frontier, and the idea that there had to be a "taming" of the west was what had the sheriffs moving west just behind the first pioneers.

These new migrating sheriffs retained their common law duties. One common law power that became particularly important in the sparsely populated and expansive western lands was that of Posse Comitatus, "the power of the county." This put all of the able-bodied men in the county at the disposal of the sheriff, a clear benefit at a time when the sheriff had few deputies at his disposal.
http://www.delawarecountysheriff.org/history.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In the mid-1990s, the transformation of the sheriff and his duties was greatly expanded. What began as a horseback sheriff housing prisoners in his home evolved into a full-service sheriff's office, which provides law enforcement, patrol duties, security to the courts, service of civil process, and operation of the county jail.

The office of sheriff is potentially the most powerful in the entire criminal justice system. And its influence extends far beyond that system. There are at least five reasons for this:

First, the sheriff is the chief law enforcement officer in his county. This status derives from the Common Law and applies whether the office in question is established by constitution or statute. It is also typical for sheriffs to be constitutionally or legislatively authorized to assume the functions of municipal law enforcement within their counties under circumstances of a breakdown of public order, wide-scale corruption, or collapse of the local enforcement mechanism.

Second, the sheriff is elected at-large on a county-wide basis. This, of course, means that the sheriff is directly accountable to the entire electorate for his performance. The sheriff typically garners a significant portion of the votes cast; this is a great source of power and an awesome responsibility.

Third, the county sheriff is the only agency head with specific constitutional or statutory responsibilities for performing functions in all three of the subsystems of the criminal justice system: law enforcement, courts, and corrections. This tripartite authority provides the sheriff with legitimate -- in fact, mandatory -- roles to play in the full range of policy-making across the subsystem.


Fourth, the sheriff performs at least five significant leadership roles that influence the health and well-being of his community. He is a political leader. He is a criminal justice leader. He is a community leader. He is a leader of his organization and a technical leader. This makes him a resource to other key policy makers as well as to the general public in his community.

Fifth, the sheriff is part of an institution that transcends the local community. He has peers in 46 states in the Union. He is part of a state coalition of his peers that wields significant influence in the development of policy and law. He and his state colleagues are part of a national coalition that performs the same role in Washington, D.C. As elected officials themselves, the sheriffs represent a powerful -- and short -- link between state and federal lawmakers and their constituents "back home." When sheriffs speak, legislators listen.
http://www.delawarecountysheriff.org/history.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If there is going to be a "ron paul revolution" to get back basic rights to counter the further taking away of them by the TPTB you're going to need help at local level. As more power is centralised and goes into fewer hands, you'll see bush/obama/nwo puppets trying to use emergencys to trick people into going to prison for stupid stuff so they can feed the prison industrial complex and get rich. When they use military weapons against civilians that is saying the people are the enemy and a sign of their intent to use brute force and to scare the public into giving up control of the old order.
THE SHERIFF
MORE POWER THAN THE PRESIDENT

By: Alan Stang

For many years, the people’s attention in the Battle for America has been directed toward the federal government and its offices. Candidates stand for the House and the Senate. Patriotic groups publish voting records of incumbents. Considerable time, effort and money are expended in support of candidates for President. After decades of such commendable activity, the record shows it is an utter failure. The danger to the nation is worse than it ever was.

For many of those years, Republicrud bosses whined that if the people would only give them control of the federal government, they would undo Democrud damage and restore Free Enterprise. Finally, the people gave it to them. Remember? The Republicruds controlled the House, the Senate and the Oval Office long enough to turn the country around. What happened? The Republicruds made our problems much worse. Their spending made the profligate drunken sailor look like Scrooge. They deserved it when the people kicked them out. They lost all credibility.

Yes, there is Dr. Ron Paul. But Dr. No is a political aberration. Time and again, he stands alone. He has neither men’s room problems nor woman problems. He doesn’t take congressional retirement. He actually returns "money" (computer entries) to the federal treasury. He proposes abolishing the Fed and the income tax and replacing them with nothing. In foreign affairs he suggests that we mind our own business. Imagine! But, again, he is an aberration.

Why? Certainly one reason has to be that we ship the successful congressional candidate off to the District of Corruption. However good the new congressman may have been when he or she boarded the plane to the District; he is subjected to intoxicating blandishments when he arrives in the enemy camp.

Soon, he succumbs to the blandishments, maybe even making himself blackmailable, and begins to vote as the party boss says, without even reading the bills. Instead of representing the people of his congressional district in the District of Criminals, he represents the D.C. to the C.D. He or she now is one of the boys or the girls. It has happened hundreds of times.

So, if the long, heroic effort to elect federal legislators has failed, does there remain any governmental Horatius who can stand in the gap; who can lead the Battle for America and restore the Constitution? There is. Lock and load, mount up and prepare for the return of the sheriff.

My guess is that in the minds of many Americans the sheriff is an antiquated figure who lives in the movies. In the older movies he is the hero; he is Gary Cooper in "High Noon," awaiting the train that will bring killer Frank Miller back to town. In the new ones, he is the southern sheriff, even bigger than Rosie O’Donnell, sneering, sadistic, racist, violent, etc. He has no modern relevance.

But now here comes Sheriff Richard Mack, elected and re-elected in Graham County, Arizona, where he served for eight years. During his tenure, three federal agents came to a meeting of Arizona sheriffs and told them in certain terms how they would be dragooned as unpaid federal bureaucrats and administer the new, federal Brady gun registration law.

The law was named of course for Ronald Reagan’s press secretary, who was severely wounded in the immensely suspicious attempt to assassinate the President. Since then, Mrs. Brady has become a leader of the campaign for Nazi gun confiscation. I don’t know whether she was as crazy before the shootings as she is now. Just one more increment of lunacy and they would have to lock her up.

Richard Mack and the other Arizona sheriffs at the meeting rebelled. Sheriff Richard says the language he heard – in which he did not participate – could not be repeated in the presence of genteel Christian ladies, so we can’t tell you here what the sheriffs said. But Sheriff Mack did take the government to court. He sued the United States, and Sheriff Jay Printz of Montana joined him as plaintiff.

On June 27th, 1997, the sheriffs won; in Printz v. U.S. (521 U.S. 898) the U.S. Supreme Court struck Brady down. Associate Justice Antonin Scalia wrote the ruling for the Court, in which he explained our system of government at length. The justly revered system of checks and balances is the key:

". . . The great innovation of this design was that ‘our citizens would have two political capacities, one state and one federal, each protected from incursion by the other’" – "a legal system unprecedented in form and design, establishing two orders of government, each with its own direct relationship, its own privity, its own set of mutual rights and obligations to the people who sustain it and are governed by it." (P. 920)

Scalia quotes President James Madison, "father" of the Constitution: "[T]he local or municipal authorities form distinct and independent portions of the supremacy, no more subject, within their respective spheres, to the general authority than the general authority is subject to them, within its own sphere." The Federalist, No. 39 at 245.

Again and again, Justice Scalia pounds the point home (page 921): "This separation of the two spheres is one of the Constitution’s structural protections of liberty: ‘Just as the separation and independence of the coordinate branches of the Federal Government serve to prevent the accumulation of excessive power in any one branch, a healthy balance of power between the States and the Federal Government will reduce the risk of tyranny and abuse from either front.’. . ." Gregory, 501 U.S. at 458.

He quotes President Madison again: "In the compound republic of America, the power surrendered by the people is first divided between two distinct governments, and then the portion allotted to each subdivided among distinct and separate departments. Hence a double security arises to the rights of the people. The different governments will control each other, at the same time that each will be controlled by itself." (P. 922)

No one could make this any clearer. The primary purpose of the Fathers was to prevent someone from grabbing all the power. When that happens, they knew, the result is arbitrary, confiscatory, government, the kind Tom Jefferson described in the Declaration of Independence. We would call it totalitarian.

Madison explains: "The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny." Federalist No. 48, February 1, 1788.

To prevent that from happening, they divided the power. First, they divided the federal power into three parts: the executive, the legislative and the judicial. They would bicker among themselves, so that no one of them could seize all the power the Constitution grants to the federal government.

The Founders divided the power even more. They set the limited power the Constitution grants the "general authority," Madison’s term for the federal government, against the vast residual powers of the states. Each sphere of government, state and federal, would be supreme in its own sphere. Neither could control the other. Each protects itself from intervention by the other. Each has its own laws and rules.

Madison says this: "Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of." Loc. Cit.

What does all this mean today in the Battle for America? Sheriff Mack says it proves that the sheriff is the highest governmental authority in his county. Within that jurisdiction – inside his county – the sheriff has more power than the governor of his state. Indeed, the sheriff has more power in his county than the President of the United States. In his county, he can overrule the President and kick his people out. Remember, the President has few and limited powers.

What? The sheriff can do that? He’s not just a character in a movie? That’s right. Not only can the sheriff do that; sheriffs have already done that, more than once. Most Americans are not aware of that because lying, conspiracy scumbags like Rush Humbug, Shallow Sean Hannitwerp and Hugh Blewitt (a lawyer) etc., haven’t told them.

Remember, the office of sheriff has a pedigree so long, we are not positive about when it was created. We think it was in the Ninth Century in England. We do know that each land district, or "shire," was governed by a "reeve." The sheriff of Nottingham became famous. At first, the king appointed them. With few exceptions, our American shire reeves are elected by the people.

In 1997, in Nye County, Nevada, federal agents arrived to seize cattle that belonged to rancher Wayne Hage. The sheriff gave them a choice: skedaddle or be arrested. They skedaddled. The cows stayed where they were. Wyoming sheriffs have told federal agencies they must check with the respective sheriff before they serve any papers, make any arrests or confiscate any property.

In Idaho, a 74-year-old rancher shot an endangered gray wolf which had killed one of his calves. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service sent three armed agents to serve a warrant. Lemhi County Sheriff Brett Barslou said that was "inappropriate, heavy-handed and dangerously close to excessive force." More than 500 people turned out for a rally in the small towns of Challis and Salmon to support the sheriff and the rancher and to tell the federal government to back off.

While Richard Mack was sheriff of Graham County, Arizona, a bridge washed out. Parents had to drive twenty six miles to get their kids to school half a mile across the river. But the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers wouldn’t fix it. First they had to do an "environmental impact study," to replace a bridge already there. They were in no hurry. The study would take a mere ten years.

The people’s suffering reached the board of supervisors. The board voted to dredge the river and fix the bridge. The feds warned that they would be fined $50,000 per day if they tried. The supervisors hesitated. Sheriff Mack promised them and the workers protection and pledged to call out a posse for the purpose if necessary. They built the bridge and the Corps of Engineers faded. The board never paid a dime.

So the long dormant spirit of America is reviving. The states are beginning to adopt Tenth Amendment resolutions, using powers they have always had. The people are restoring our long unbalanced constitutional system. There is something "blowin’ in the wind," but it isn’t what Bob Dylan thought it was. Recently, Sheriff Mack addressed 570 people in Fredericksburg, Texas. He reports that the reception was "beyond fantastic."

What can you do? For once we are not just complaining. There is a plan. I do not argue that you should forget about Congress. Not at all; if you see an opportunity there, take it. Always remember that right now it is run by people like Barney the Bugger of Taxachusetts, who will be elected by moronth in hith dithtrict until he dieth of AIDS.

Most of the time, when you approach your congressman, you come to complain. In the new crusade, you will approach your sheriff and tell him that he is not only handsome, charming and overwhelmingly masculine, but also that he has powers he may not be aware of. You have come to tell him what they are and to back him up. My guess is, when you tell him that, he will not kick you out.

Tell him you expect him to return the courtesy when the Nazis come from the District of Criminals to get the guns. Tell him you are ready in a minute to serve under his direction in a posse. He will not move to Washington and be corrupted. He will stay there with you. Show him the ten orders the Oath Keepers will not obey. The Oath Keepers are retired and active duty military and police. Their web site is oath-keepers.blogspot.com. The first order they promise to disobey is an order to disarm you.

Put him together with Sheriff Mack. You will find him at sheriffmack.com. His telephone numbers are 928 792-4340 and 928 792-3888. Bring the sheriff to your town to speak. He will explain all this. Invite your own sheriff. At the meeting I attended, the local sheriff and chief of police were there and loved what they heard. No one dislikes hearing how important he is.

What if your sheriff is stupid or a federal factotum? That is what you will find in many big cities. I once interviewed Los Angeles County Sheriff Peter Pitchess, who said no one should have a hand gun. I asked him how a five foot lady alone in bed could defend herself from a rapist. Realizing he was perilously close to making himself look even dumber than he did usually, Pitchess conceded she could have a long gun.

I brightened. A street sweeper isn’t really the best weapon for close quarters, but it would give the lady a chance. Unfortunately, Pitchess added the word, "unloaded." I asked him what that five foot lady with an unloaded shotgun could do against a six foot rapist. A police captain sat beside Pitchess during the interview. His job was to extricate Peter from the jams he persisted on getting himself into. The police captain extruded a barrage of miasma. It was effective. I did not get an answer.

In such cases, says Sheriff Mack, move to a county where the sheriff is receptive. Many more will be. For instance, in Texas there are 254 counties. Each has a sheriff. If it is feasible to do so, run for sheriff yourself. Even your wife will be impressed when she sees you with a hog leg on your hip and a star on your vest. Imagine the intense joy of meeting IRS Communists or BATFE Nazis at the county line and denying them admission.

The Battle for America will be decided in your county at your front door. If you act now, later you will not need to "fill your hand."
"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact."

http://www.etherzone.com/2009/stang032009.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Once people understand how to avoid putting too much power into a single place, they can block all the bad that big government and big brother wants to bring in to make people's lives more miserable to leverage them for things. Don't let the giant step all over you or they'll be more encouraged to keep doing it. They'll try to group you as being some anti-government anarchist out to cause chaos in order to make you sound like criminal trying to harm society, but that means they are scared. They need complete control in order to put everyone into prisons, that is the goal. But will only achieve it if people allow themselves to get distracted by entertainment, willingly allow it to happen by whining how it's too hard, and hopefully for the controllers: forget about things easily with their ADHD attention spans and lack of education so they won't want to think for themselves and be reliant on the control freak for everything.
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GameHED
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Post by GameHED »

Here;s one that might frighten those who are wondering what it'd be like if we lived in a society where people were GM beings created in a lab:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread450096/pg1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Natural humans will be done away with because we are the diseased inferior ones that will threaten to pollute the utopian future master race.

We should keep an eye on this. Monsanto is planning to destroy the human race and play god with nature. (this is why small farmers are being wiped out with engineered disasters so people have to go to them for food)

Human beings are not things for us to play with. All the mad scientists will try to rationalise it by saying they are improving things. What happens when they make a mistake and the being doesn't want to die or wish it was never created and starts roaming around as an angry monster with no human rights because it is not categorised as a person? It will be pissed off that society could think such a thing and make it. They don't like to think ahead. Anyone who played Halo knows what happened when the Flood came out of their sealed chambers. Once you open the genie's bottle..
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GameHED
10000 words or your money back!
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Post by GameHED »

Global currency news:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... rkets.html

Orgonewarriors predicts that the thought crime bill would be used against ron paul supporters:

http://www.orgonewarriors.com/housebill.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
House Passes Thought Crime Prevention Bill
10-25-2007
http://www.roguegovernment.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lee Rogers

"They call it thought crime but they're going after Internet radio hosts? They're trying to stop free speech!"


The U.S. House of Representatives recently passed HR 1955 titled the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007.

This bill is one of the most blatant attacks against the Constitution yet and actually defines thought crimes as homegrown terrorism.

If passed into law, it will also establish a commission and a Center of Excellence to study and defeat so called thought criminals. Unlike previous anti-terror legislation, this bill specifically targets the civilian population of the United States and uses vague language to define homegrown terrorism.

Amazingly, 404 of our elected representatives from both the Democrat and Republican parties voted in favor of this bill.

There is little doubt that this bill is specifically targeting the growing patriot community that is demanding the restoration of the Constitution. First let's take a look at the definitions of violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism as defined in Section 899A of the bill.

The definition of violent radicalization uses vague language to define this term of promoting any belief system that the government considers to be an extremist agenda.

Since the bill doesn't specifically define what an extremist belief system is, it is entirely up to the interpretation of the government. Considering how much the government has done to destroy the Constitution they could even define Ron Paul supporters as promoting an extremist belief system.

Literally, the government according to this definition can define whatever they want as an extremist belief system.
This is why it is very important to not let them paint ordinary people as terrorists. You are dealing with a 'smooth' criminal as michael jackson was singing of in his music video. Not many people are aware of what his happening because they've been in a spell for a long time to not be able to make sense of it.
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Post by GameHED »

For those who would like to know more about what the NWO plan is, there is a nice summary of what it all means here in this video:
pay attention to the compartmentalised pyramid diagram.

This is how 'knowledge' (about the scheme - which is how the secret societies are all run) is compartmentalised so that one guy doesn't know truly who or what he is working for, (only the cover explanation) and the intentions of those above him. The knowledge has to be compartmentalised so that even good-intentioned people will serve the grand evil scheme towards a slave government that makes humans into mere beasts to be herded with the leaders as evil shepherds - the master of the beasts who controls all the monsters on the chessboard.

Only through oaths of secrecy (not telling the true intentions of what's goiong on above to those below) could they have achieved this. Which is why all the leaders of any kind of influence that could threaten the pyramid have had to lie to the people after being put into power. In secret they need to stay there long enough to take a little bit more of your power away from you at a time and when they are unpopular just pass the baton on to the next puppet who will in turn be there long enough to go another step..and so on until people from generation to generation are completely ignorant and stupid enough to take total control of and not care.

What this teaches humantiy (now that the mainstream media has to come to terms with the reality of thier own co-operation with bad guys) is that the evil 'enlightened' wizard can't be trusted to take good care of the people he leads (which is towards death) due to lack of compassion. The pyramid is the Great Work (new agers are "light workers" and freemasons are worshipping "knowledge" and the lightbearer lucifer. They have chosen the tree of knowledge at the expense of the tree of life itself trying to manipulate in secret)

When the elite go to boehemian grove to "cremate care" and give up their worries that is where they allow all kinds of evil to take over them and they lose the compassion they would normally have for others. How can you trust people who have litle regard for the very people they rely upon to keep them fed? They have doomed themselves if they can't fight off the urge to be part of such a conspiracy.

Whatever happens....don't take the chip. Fuck this electronic money shit and the taking away of free will.. You've seen all the science fiction movies where the people in those utopian socieities are in mind controlled hellholes trying to break free from corrupt robotic fake environments designed to 'help' them. Not worth the sacrifice.


...


More david icke videos:

"The Freedom Road"
Part 1 - broken into 10 min youtube pieces 1 - 11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythYXHSQxz0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im_7bxBcSRA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClZbGborq2Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7APvhywCtw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYWuLg-YusI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSDm4PXaNgU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9UKwudsKMU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X71s4oNXq10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf0XqO6c4Ek" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQaJv_XtxT0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T27Rac-ynpc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt11

Part 2 - pieces 1 - 10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VXRQb8E4gI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK4lRhoNVp0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQhAgGv1Tt8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ojxgdGwS64" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrsJdd12L2k" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4B9wxBCHDM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNJEL6LCBg0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4UHAONM848" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VwGWIP51CM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpnAhEFp5kc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; p10

Part 3 - pieces 1 - 7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq1R08IlHJ4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edwcu96-Si0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvT_tqrnj6I" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjpvoR-9q2w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCtIyi_QY7M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioUWBXx2HW4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcSxT7IcO0k" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pt7

This documentary made a long time ago is pretty interesting and it helps explain why the 2012 thing is significant to all the new agers. You'll note how the occult use the sun symbolism within all the organised religions and other companies in a disguised way to hide the controllers who twised the belief systems to their own ends. This is why I reckon images made by artists of god are seen as bad by the followers. "Thou shalt not make graven images" so that people won't worship the sun god, getting confused into worshipping a created thing and not the creator. (like what you see with the new age which wants us to bow down to gaia and worship the nature) Artists have always been at odds with religion for not being allowed to express to others their interpretation of things. Just as directors of movies based on comics can sometimes get slammed by the fans of the original work made by the original creator for the movie adaptation not living up to their high standards.
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Post by Deef »

Some people write a lot.. okay.
Some people can rant about weird issues, or take the mickey out of themselves, or make it impossible to tell.
Righto.

But you just put 29 vids the one post! The sixth consecutive post! Who are you talking to?!?!
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Post by t0mby »

Deef wrote:But you just put 29 vids the one post! The sixth consecutive post! Who are you talking to?!?!
People who want to listen.
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Post by GreyWizzard »

Why would you come into a conspiracy theory thread and have a go at someone for posting heaps of information in regards to consipracy theories?

People post large amounts of info on the subject because it;s their thing, and it's what they know about. If other people want to read it they can. As tomby posted, for people who want to listen. If you don't want to read it, then don't read it, you don't need to post that you don't want to read it.
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Post by GameHED »

Patriots getting angry over the masses "wake up":
Deef this thread is for those interested in the conspiracies (and the theories behind them) so if you don't like them, it's not for you. Many people are suspicious about attempts to globalise everything in because it rapes individuals of more freedoms they once had but won't anymore when all the nations leaders agree to be part of this conspiracy. This is why I post so people are at least aware of why they are going to be forced to go into camps.

Already in the US you have ordinary people (not the usual bums) living in tent cities so what all this is about is 1. collapse the economy on purpose. 2. wait for public reaction to plead for help from government. 3. bring about a change that further increases the power of the "powers that be" ie have globalists tell them what they must do. In this instance: solidify control over all nations by making them look irresponsible and unable to manage themselves. ..so that they can get closer to a global union.

League of nations > United Nations > Global Government.

..coming after the World Wars

In the future you will be fighting threats from space and the reaction will be to weaponise space to further increase the control over the people. (not even snake plissken will be able to escape the planet) Combined with the chipping of people and a central computer that records everything the chipped person does and automates responses to take by predicting how people will behave in advance, ...this provides the globalists the power to have absolute control over your lives and silently enforce their will by having you connected to the system at all times like how pets are chipped to track them. They see humans as no better than animals.

In the videos it mentions how ordinary people allowed this to happen through ignorance of these plans by not paying attention to the true agenda behind the surface or knowledge of history. Icke used to be laughed at for suggesting that we'd all be chipped (people are taking his idea a lot more seriously now) and fast forward today the governments are getting ready to put chips in everything, by first introduced the smart cards. Plus the information from "Silent Wars for Quiet Weapons" in one of the links I provided shows how they want to plan every single thing in your life without your knowledge by targeting certain individuals based on the class, in order to create a type of stress in a certain group of people of their choosing that creates a predictable reaction ie things like buying more beer when you can't find work, going to the pub, increase intake of food etc and these little patterns help our controllers further manipulate our emotions from a hidden position) and develop formulas for our behavior. (just as animals can be studied in the wild and patterns observed to try to lock down thinking patterns and behavior to the variety of environmental conditions)

There are those who watch the mainstream media ignoring the alterntive media so their whole lives (like the man in the Truman Show) is subtly controlled without them knowing it. When they turn on the tv they are unaware that the true plan (the TRUE MAN is the guy who exits the bubble world ) isn't shown to them but a kind of play/movie version is shown to them to keep them happy temporarily. I also recommend the matrix or fight club which basically all have the same ideas.

Slowly people have to wake up to this because if they don't, then their lack of understanding will allow them to be manipulated further and that leads to things like them getting chipped, being treated like a criminal despite not having done anything wrong, more censorship in things you can say on the internet on a phone or in public (remember the government spies on everyone - harassing those who ideas they don't like), your choices in what you can eat, what you can grow, where you can be, whether you can be allowed to defend against a gang of looters by having a weapon for personal defence. (maybe they see that as a threat to them when they kick down doors to bring about whatever if coming down the road - labour camps)

As the people feel more and more constricted of those basic freedoms they are slowly wanting more information about "how this was possible" and "why it is happening". These videos explain it by looking back into history of it so that people ar aware of how previous generation were manipulated and went along with it.

The average joe is innocent and believe the leaders have good intentions bringing about these plans to centralise all the power. (when its just the plan handed to them by the controllers)
I think as time goes on people will have to adjust to this idea of global system taking control of them because they just don't understand it and what it will really mean for them. By denying and saying "it doesn't exist" that's just a coping mechanism because they are scared and in shock. (just like with 911 and when people just couldn't talk about the subject because of the horror of what just happened)
...But the longer you wait the more control you give up. Gordon Brown openly wants to use this financial crisis as an excuse to further the globalist agenda to centralise the power. This is classic "Problem - Reaction - Solution" technique that david icke mentions in his books as we get closer to 2012.

Watch the mainstream news, talk to others and discuss it, keep up to date of these world events, to help you understand what is happening. It reaffirms some of the beliefs people have held for years when they realised something about this world just wasn't right about it. These books, videos, clips help to explain why.
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Post by GameHED »

Here is a new interview with David Icke from Project Camelot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4UyEUldOLQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
....

Oh BTW the reason I posted so many vids the last time is because it is a multiple hour tape chopped up into 10 minutre pieces because youtube has limits on the length of videos. No need to cry. It's not going to kill you.
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Post by lexo »

GameHED wrote: Oh BTW the reason I posted so many vids the last time is because it is a multiple hour tape chopped up into 10 minutre pieces because youtube has limits on the length of videos. No need to cry. It's not going to kill you.
How can you be sure? What if you're linking us into a secret government database of people who oppose the reptillian overlords? What if they're using secret technology which can imbed nanobots which can shoot through the computer screen and into your body, waiting until the day comes that they need to turn you off? Boom!
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Post by Deef »

April Fool's?? Heh, no ok. I admit I didn't have to come across that way. It's the fact that you do so much - you must have alt-tabbed at least 60 times to create that post - and write so much, then whenever I start reading I often can't even work out if you're being serious or not. This leaves me wondering why you're doing so much. But yeah, it's your thing.

The problem I have with the topic of conspiracy in general is that no-one ever presents a conspiracy theory in an objective way. If someone is telling you about a possible conspiracy, they want to believe it.
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Post by Twiztid Elf »

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Post by Rorschach »

I just read this thread page to page - fuck I'm depressed.
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Post by lexo »

Icke = Hubbard wannabe confirmed.
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Post by GameHED »

Yeah I know it's hard to believe but cartoons have foretold it FFS.

Cobra Credits.
Trailer #2 for Frank Lordi's documentary Mindbender. In this installment Cobra Commander uses New World Order speak, depicting a New Order that will rise from the ashes of a dead financial system. ...
Now all you have to do is look at what's happening today to see their plan. Note the car door falling off in the cartoon foretelling the auto industry suffering, and compare that with what is happening in the news? GM dying, because of the auto industry collapsing.

...Signs, ..symbols.. hidden secret meanings. They have to hide the true meanings so that the cattle can't understand it.
Just like the "Fuck me I'm not too young" subliminal message in *britney spears songs,
..or the "sex in the clouds" controversy in cartoon movies like Lion King. It's not meant to be obvious, since they are aiming at the subconscious part of your brain, but it can be seen to those who are looking for it. The pedo that gets a job working with children (or close to them) isn't going to openly tell you.

Through control of the media they can manipulate our thoughts and feelings and like a wizard using a curse spell, surpress the psionic powers of the human race. (that's what david icke and all these new age teachers are saying) What do you think final fantasy 7 and Arcanum is all about? You are all like the pokemon who can still be useful to the pokemaster, but only valuable if under the command of the controller, otherwise you are competition and a threat to them. That's why control is so important. The evil wizard's sleep and hypnotise spells seem to be wearing off for some reason.

Just because some of it's funny doesn't make it a joke.

*it's easy to say it's just conspiracy nutters who believe this but ordinary non-conspiracy people can see what's happening. They want to implant messages to kids just like they do women to make them feel bad about their natural image, and men to make them feel insecure (watch that documentary "bigger stronger faster") so they buy dodgy products, and make people rich by creating the false images for people to worship and follow as a type of modern day "false gods". This is the real world. All I ask is that you think outside the box before shooting the messenger.
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Post by GameHED »

Here is something that will be relevent for all the "right to bear arms americans" and for all the lone gunmen conspiracy nerds to keep an eye on:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... lf-defense

An ABC documentary will explore the use of guns for self defense. This is I think going to be the starting attempt at slowly getting people used to the idea that gun owning people are dangerous even if they have no criminal intent.

IMO this is going to be the test to see if the population can be disarmed through peaceful method and then afterwards put into the camps. If the propaganda campaign works, it is the sign that times are going to get darker and more oppressive as americans will give up freedoms they once took for granted in exchange for words of comfort and promise of security. Once they hand away their children's future to their corrupt leaders, they will have thrown away any chance of militia for good and doomed many generations that come after them to a total enslaved dictatorship.

The bad guys do not have rules. They see the enemy as the innocent people whose power is a mere obstacle to their ambition for world domination. Watch carefully and observe because I think this gun control debate that will be pushed by the left wing of the NWO dragon, is going to decide the future leading up to 2012.

Without the guns all those patriot groups will have just bent over and allowed themselves to be raped by any present and future dictator who wishes to see them rounded up into the fema camps always mentioned about on alex jone's show. I predict mass demonisation of gun owners such that has never come before. (this means lots of staged killings to frighten the public into submission to get them angry at gun nuts who have made up their mind to not let government confiscate the weapons)

I'm not a fan of guns myself, but I can see the reason for a person's right to self defense. If the criminal has one, you should too in order to ensure a level playing field. Innocent law abiding people who have no intention to rob a bank, hold people at gunpoint, murder, etc should not have any reason to give up their ability to protect themselves from someone who does seek to rob, murder, massacre etc and take advantage of a person who can't defend themselves.

You'll start to see a lot of coverage of staged shootings and labelled as "gun crimes" in the mainstream as they demonise people who won't commit criminal act against another person with a gun but want it for self defense againt those that do.
It's a crime to murder people, but it will make more impact calling it "gun" murder and highlight that gun part is what caused the murder to make the public agree. Just as Jack Thompson was using videogames to force people to demonise violent games by painting them into something that causes people to go crazy (like masturbation making people go blind) enough to kill people in the real world, ...so too will they attempt to paint innocent people as potential crazies out to massacre, and not just a ordinary guy who believes in the right to personally defend themselves.

If they can't disarm everyone, the bringing in of a population under slave labour camps will be much harder. The Old Republic is officially doomed at that point. No jedi left.
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Post by Twiztid Elf »

I don't agree with guns either. Actually, I'm kindof scared of them tbh. But, if I lived in America, or if they were legal here, I would own one and learn how to use it properly.

People assume the 2nd amendment is for self defence. WRONG. The real intent the 2nd amendment is to provide the people with a defense mechanism against corrupt tyrannical leadership.
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Post by GameHED »

Some interesting stuff on chemtrails.

Some mainstream coverage of an usually 'conspiracy nut' topic.

Why is this unusual?

They acknowledge their existence!

They acknowledge they are used for weather control.

But the twist is.. it's not to deliberately destroy the environment, and destroy human immune systems. oh noo... it's to combat climate change! Obama to the rescue. :lol:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... rming.html

*shakes head in disbelief* It's a black op weapon that will cause warming. These are military-minded madmen. "If you don't pay the carbon tax, we'll burn your farms, and spread harmful chemicals and viruses on you".
Mr Holdren also proposed the option of developing 'artificial trees' that would suck carbon dioxide - the chief human-produced greenhouse gas - out of the air and store it.
Aritificial trees to suck carbon dioxide. Nature's trees want to use it the way humans use oxygen. We are already in balance with nature. As you can see these people are deliberately destroying the environment to kill us off.

If you skeptics don't wake up to the plan, these aliens are going to get away with destroying the humans' home planet right in front of your eyes. You just going to sit there and let them have their way?
People assume the 2nd amendment is for self defence. WRONG. The real intent the 2nd amendment is to provide the people with a defense mechanism against corrupt tyrannical leadership.
The point is, they want to demonise the tool, not the criminal act of murdering. Just like it's not reasonable to blame cars for running people over, but the individual drivers. You know it, they know it, but they need to convince the masses with manipulation of their emotions so that's why all the emphasis on how dangerous guns are and no emphasis on the criminals and the crimes itself.

Guilt by association: "criminals use guns. All gun owners must therefore be criminals (or potential ones) for having guns."

Sheople are group-minded people who take sides as if defending a football team. The reptilians (or the 'djinn' as arabs call them) know it and take advantage of their emotions because they know they won't look at the debate logically and only want to feel like they are winning a fight. Set one group against the other, watch them fight, prtend to be the sensible moderate in the middle that brings in the solution to a problem that doesn't exist. (just a step to empower the controllers a little bit more)

"Drunk drivers kill some people with their car by accident. All people who drive cars must therefore be drunks. Lock all drivers away to protect society from danger." :roll: The reason it works is because we allow them to convince us they are right out of tiredness to have to keep debating so we say: "enough already just let them take control of our lives."

Bring self-sufficient = a threat to control freaks. Like a drug, the more control they have, and the more you provide, the more they'll want until there is nothing left to give. We need to help them.

Skeptics you can joke about google being evil and spying on you, government using the printers to spy, censored internet, but you got to look at the bigger picture. The connections, the revolving doors, the secret societys, the future, why they want to rob innocents of rights that should just exist as god-given human rights regardless of what powermad leaders say..
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We, the paranoid are just trying to help free you from chains. There is a dark side in the world that enjoys controlling things and wanting to be invisible using it to keep people in sleep mode. While they get to hide, they can spy, illegally wire-tep, datamine your arse, CCTV camera everything, treat you like a criminal with no evidence of wrong doing, ban your ability to use camera for anything, etc

One set of rules for them, one different set for you. People have to fight for more fairness or they'll just treat you and the generation that comes after you like a doormat.

All the cool things that sound helpful and innocent on the surface, always have some string attached later that bites you on the bum. Be on guard.

edit:
no I don't really hate google that much, 8) just using them as one example of "technology being used evily" which I'm sure there is many other examples of it being used for good. So no accusations of me being a luddite who hates progress. Looks like wikipedia can take their chemtrails entry off of conspiracy theory label now and skeptics needs to face up to harsh reality.
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Post by Symbiote »

Mech - you seem to reflexively deny things without logic. IMO trying to learn some basics of rational thinking would help you gain some understanding instead of just being close minded.

Agonny - Agree with a lot of what you're saying, not all, but a lot. IMO a strong understanding of economics would help separate the wheat from the chaff. I recommend to take a look at http://www.lewrockwell.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, it reports on a lot of the stuff you would be interested in, (eg NAFTA superhighway, fluoridation, drug war, FEMA camps, Federal Reserve ), but has a strong economic grounding and it basically created Ron Paul, or at least boosted him to the point where youtube/digg etc were able to take him on board.
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Post by mech »

:lol: This new account is at least keeping the lulz happening.
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Post by AgOnNy »

:lol: :lol: Wow, I'm apparently interested in all those things yet haven't really said anything at all to give that impression.
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Post by Symbiote »

Sorry, you people*

*Reptilians or possibly bee-humanoid hybrids. Colony collapse syndrome may reflect the harvesting of hive DNA for genetic experimentation. Individuality is a threat to the system and the illuminati have over time been introducing strands of DNA from species with collective minds such as bees/ants into the gene pool. The royal family and other wealthy and influential people such as Saudi Royal Family, Bush's, Clintons, Kennedys, Rockefellers, Bin Ladens are aware of if not directly orchestrating this and carefully select their mates to avoid cross species contamination (CSS).

In 2012 (judgement day) those with sufficiently collective DNA will remain here while the chosen ones (those pure) will be taken to an "island" (space station) to ascend, as foreseen in Brave New World.
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Post by Ekin »

What are number stations for, gamehed?
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Post by GameHED »

No that's not me. :lol:

Maybe it's either a genuine conspiracy minded new member, or a joke account. Not me. Welcome to the boards. :D


Here's a youtube vid of chemtrails:(these are seen all over the world now)
When authoritive sources openly admit stuff it's time to look into the conspiracy properly and start asking questions and making effort to boost awareness among the public because the mainstream don't like to believe this stuff due to what hoagland ha metioned about how lies are different at every level.

The journalists that get told to their face "nothing to see here" by official sources are given cover explanations that sound plausible enough on the surface which is good enough for the journos of today, but which may not be enough to convince others. If they were allowed to look further into something usually they are silenced or just told flatly that it doesn't exist so they stop there. The thing is, in their minds there is never the possibility that the guy is just plain lying 'unknowingly' (that is to say he isn't aware that he is lying because he believes that lie to be the truth and is very convincing due to the compartmentalisation of information: each lie differs to different people so they each think they have the truth but don't look into it and check to see so. They are layers of lie depending on the person lied to just to keep them away from the true agenda)

What you got to understand is that those who do have the information and want to blow the whistle (or just people with information that threatens the depopulation or weapon research agenda) are the ones that mysteriously die. I believe that the many mysterious deaths of microbiologists may be a clue in all of this. What did they know that they were not allowed to tell us? Why kill them off? Is this so they can not come up with the antidote to whatever poisonous chemicals and deadly viruses that will be spread across the world in future?

Remember the georgia guidestones. How will they managed to depopulate the world so much if people are naturally disgusted by such an sinister idea? The only people who can hate others beings so much are those who feel threatened by the masses. Maybe they feel guilty robbing them and don't want to have to fight people off or accept that they are part of the problem? (these are the same people who secretly like to hunt animals in nature reserves as sport, but then lecture us on pollution and try to charge taxes on society for living)

Bottom line is: they want you to be the slave, and if not useful to them, see you dead. They can then replace us with proper robots or machines that won't complain after earth is sucked dry of gold and other things. In my next post I'm going to post stuff from Jim Marss on his ideas of the UFO connection to secret societies to nazis, to ancient civilisations and how this may relate to the dooms day warnings and cataclysms that people are worried of. (return of annunaki, sightings of alien ufos in public mass, how the middle east ties into it etc)

EDIT: honestly this is not a "proof this theory dickhead!" debate thread. I don't want to start a fight. Just take this info with a grain of salt and decide for yourself what you want to do with it. If people say the chemtrails and ufo are sci-fi or that "you just read about that in a comic book or saw it in a movie or read it in a fantasy novel" then fine. But open minded people may want to know what it is about or have a friend who claims they were abducted or who had seen ufos themselves. Just because you can't find the evidence firsthand through your own years of looking into it, doesn't mean it isn't there, or that some kind of cover up isn't taking place to have it hidden from you.

I personally think chemtrails is one of the more important and relevent things because the public can obviously see this, and the UN has banned weather modification (ie how can something that doesn't even exist be banned?) even though publicly nobody heard of that from mainstream media which people solely rely on.
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