Goodbye Falcon

[BruceCamblzChin]

Holden wins yay! No they're fucked too.

[cloud]

Whole country is fucked.

[Seraph]

Ford won, obviously. They finished first.

[General Chaos]

Nah Holden Won...

GM went bankrupt and got socialized.

[itch]

Hopefully, Holden does what it needs to do, which is make a Golf beater.

2.0 litre turbo. Start with the cruise. Pop the new plant in it and watch it walk out the door. Then with those bucks do a total redesign of the platform. Make a hot hatch that people actually want and sell n/a eco versions of it as well.

That'd actually sell overseas too.

[unfnknblvbl]

I'm seeing a definite surge in the popularity of small, sporty cars at the moment - highlighted by the 86. Holden need a car that will compete with that, too.

[itch]

Only thing is though, they've got these abroad (do they have them in Australia?)



(2013 Vauxhall VXR)
Do you think, if Holden was going to make a hot hatch it would have to be better than that?

Maybe they could just pinch the suspension, or make it 4wd. I dunno.

[unfnknblvbl]

Isn't that VXR completely undriveable? Hot hatches actually need to be useable to be any good..

[itch]

Nah not really.

They have it in several flavours.

I think the biggest complaint is that it's noisey.

Either way, does it make sense for Holden to better that if GM could just rebrand it and send it here?

[General Chaos]

Isn't that a rebranded astra? if so they are sold as Opel here

[unfnknblvbl]

GM could rebrand any of their cars and sell them here to replace the Commodore though - after all, the Cruze is a rebranded Daewoo Lacetti

[itch]

Yeah it's a performance Astra.

They've been sold in Australia as Holden Astra in the past.


And I think very briefly as an Opel as well.


In a recent episode of Top Gear, Clarkson rates it better than the new Ford Focus and Renault Megane. [shrug] Not that I'd ever own one.

It's definitely not inconceivable that it go on sale here though.

[General Chaos]

Well Holden cant sell it then because opel are selling direct.

[itch]

Yeah, maybe.

I'd prefer to see a homegrown competitor anyway.

[stanard]

Listen to Chaos. There's no maybe.

[itch]

Yeah, and I've never seen one on the road. I think its the name. Astra/Opel/Vauxhall has a bad reputation.

They'd have to badge it as a 'Commodette'. Use the astra platform/suspension.

Lord knows stranger things have happened.

[itch]

I mean, you faggots do see what I'm getting at right?

[General Chaos]

That GM should just fuck off and take Holden with them like they were supposed to a couple of years ago?

I agree!

[itch]

I think that's a very likely outcome. (in the next 5ish years)


However, I don't think you can mention a potential hot hatch from Holden with out mentioning the Astra. Either as a potential platform to start with, or at least as a competitor that would have to be beaten.

What we get instead is the Cruise which has got to be one of the more uninspiring small cars on the market.

The new commodore looks pretty weak as well.





Maybe it will be the last one?

[General Chaos]

Commodore dies in 2016. Holden just haven't pulled up all the stops (they probably will).

They did a better job of putting lipstick on a pig (deawoo) and manufacturing it here locally than Ford who could have manufactured Focus/Fiesta/Mondeo here if they chose but Ford Aus marketing is fucking hopeless and let the whole side down. In fact Ford manufacturing here won't make a lick of difference to the dealerships if they don't sort their marketing out.

[unfnknblvbl]

I think that's a very likely outcome. (in the next 5ish years)


However, I don't think you can mention a potential hot hatch from Holden with out mentioning the Astra. Either as a potential platform to start with, or at least as a competitor that would have to be beaten.

What we get instead is the Cruise which has got to be one of the more uninspiring small cars on the market.

but don't you see? They CAN'T make a hot hatch thanks to Opel and the whole GM thing. That would must be a case of GM cannibalising it's own sales. It just wouldn't work, and they'd never get permission from GM anyway.

I think they should turn the Cruze into the new Torana. However, the reality is that as much as you might want a hot hatch out of them, and I desperately want them to make an 86 or MR2 wannabe, these things are halo cars and despite appealing to people like us, they never sell in great numbers. The Cruze - despite being one of the most boring cars I've ever set eyes on that didn't have an Audi badge, and being fucking huge for a 'small car' - apparently sells quite well, which is exactly what Holden want.


...I still want then to make a small mid-engined sports car though.

[itch]

What, like one of these?



No, you make some excellent points man, I totally agree.


It's just something that I'd like to see.


I dunno, maybe in the absence of a commodore, Holden could make it happen, especially if they value added/had a really tempting price point. Personally I see the Cruise as a non-car, but honestly at the -very least- put a 2.0 litre turbo in it ffs.

[Froggy]

I like the look of the new Commodore and I think it's going to be a great car. 8.3l/100km for a v6 engine that is also designed to enjoy an ethanol blend is ridiculously good economy, a Mazda6 4cyl is 6.6/100kms and it's smaller and lighter with a crapload less power as well. I don't want to see the end of Falcon or Commodore because they give us cars we need in Australia, people who don't travel far forget how big the distances between places in Australia are in saying that if Holden's go with the front wheel drive global commodore model next it'll fail hard. There's no way I'd want to be driving front wheel down some outback roads.

I don't think having a hot hatch is going to sell much itch and unfnk is completely right, GM won't want to compete with another of it's brand for the same market. Australian's generally buy conservative cars that are about as exciting as a fridge, hence the Corolla was top dog for ages and why the Cruze sells so well. The problem in Australia is there's so many cars now to choose from that it doesn't really matter what they come up with there's probably not going to be enough room in the market even if it's no 1 to sell enough to make squillions anymore. If Holdens concentrate on selling a combined 60k of Cruze's and Commodores that should make them more than enough money to keep going. The VF commodore is great at it's price point with the stuff you get to, it will be interesting how much of a hit the sales take from the pessimistic future of the automotive industry.

[Froggy]

Also, I'm not sure people are buying smaller cars if anything it seems everyone's buying a fucking SUV.

[itch]

You make some great points froggy, and I think you've got a pretty complete picture of the Australian car maket there. However, I'm not entirely sure the point about cannibalising sales is that salient. GM is famous for in the 90's having the same car in the states sold under 6 different brands. It worked for them back then.

I'm sure the new Commer will be a great car. (My current ride is a VS Berlina. LOL)

The styling's way off tough.