Video game music

[GreyWizzard]

GameHED raises some valid points about old v new. Thanks dude.

[t0mby]

Greywizzard is GH confirmed.

[flipswitch]

About a week ago I bought the Deus Ex : HR soundtrack from google play, I then downloaded at very slow speed (but I stuck with it!)
the soundtrack of the original Deus Ex soundtrack from here :
http://www.snakebytestudios.com/project ... oundtrack/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The site is incredibly slow and sometimes it won't even load.

Or you can just find it on YouTube.

[GeneraL CyberFunK]

GameHED raises some valid points about old v new. Thanks dude.

His points are pretty off the mark for various reasons. He's talking about music chips and now the SNES are better.. from a technology point of view? Yes it is since its newer tech...but look at some of the best DJs and sound producers.. they more times than not prefer to go back to the original instruments because of how they sound. Rowland hardware... junos2... they just have a sound that is unique. The same with the c64 sid chip.

Secondly those tracks listed by t0mby and I were on c64 but its more the artists who made that generation of music so amazing. Pretty sure that the big c64 artists didn't do music for SNES... so effectively their tunes are encapsulated on the c64 era which again shows the stupidity of comparing two music chips when the musical compositions themselves rarely ended up on both.

The sound of the c64 is unique and so is the SNES for that matter. The sound of the c64 combined with some truly remarkable musical compositions is what makes looking back to that era worthwhile. As per usual GameHED misses the point.

[t0mby]

And the fact that the C64 SID chip, made in 1982, was never designed with music in mind but it was Rob Hubbards 'Monty on the Run' released in 85 that paved the way for many composers after him.

[Gamma]

Since it does nothing but synthesise audio, the designer must have fucked up pretty royally if was supposed to do something else. What's your source on that?

[GreyWizzard]

I find your points valid too GCF. What they did with the equipment they had was amazing. Without trying to put words into GH's mouth (because enough come out already) I think he is saying as the technology advances we get a more cinematic scoring. We move away from the chip tune into real instruments. It's not to disparage the chip but that some people may be more comfortable with instruments than synth.

I was listening to the Airship theme from Super Mario Bros 3 and discovered I preferred the NES version. It's slightly slower and has more of a bass sound to it. It makes the track more foreboding. I always had it in my head that the SNES tune was superior... Getting a chance to listen to them side by side really changed my mind.

[GeneraL CyberFunK]

Hmm no.. He was effectively saying that since the snes chip had more versatility and had more power it was better and that we were letting nostalgia rule our opinion.

The c64 tunes were awesome for their composition and sound. They are tunes that have stayed with us and given the Sid chips somewhat limited power... I think that counts more compared to a chip that is more powerful.

[t0mby]

What's your source on that?

My source was the internet.

[Gamma]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5tcAXMDxfY&feature=kp[/youtube]

[Twiztid Elf]

Perhaps the greatest thing ever.

[Twiztid Elf]

Really love the Awesomenauts music.

[GameHED]

GameHED raises some valid points about old v new. Thanks dude.

His points are pretty off the mark for various reasons. He's talking about music chips and now the SNES are better.. from a technology point of view? Yes it is since its newer tech...but look at some of the best DJs and sound producers.. they more times than not prefer to go back to the original instruments because of how they sound. Rowland hardware... junos2... they just have a sound that is unique. The same with the c64 sid chip.

Secondly those tracks listed by t0mby and I were on c64 but its more the artists who made that generation of music so amazing. Pretty sure that the big c64 artists didn't do music for SNES... so effectively their tunes are encapsulated on the c64 era which again shows the stupidity of comparing two music chips when the musical compositions themselves rarely ended up on both.

The sound of the c64 is unique and so is the SNES for that matter. The sound of the c64 combined with some truly remarkable musical compositions is what makes looking back to that era worthwhile. As per usual GameHED misses the point.

Music is music.
Good music should not sound like crap.

Humourous atempt at making a GBA version of May's theme from Guilty Gear:

vs

the new: (or better because it doesn't sound like electronic music which to me isn't music just random sounds strung together)

I'm just saying nostalgia clouds people's judgement of things. Compare the SNES castlevania midi music to NES. NES is inferior because it is limited and doesn't resemble real music. The lizards have brainwashed you again.

Better techology = more options to prevent something sounding weak. Yuzo Koshiro had a lot to do with making SOR sound good but it could be even better with better techology. The reason people like the chip tunes from the 8 bit days is mostly because they remember how limited the technology was so if a game had good music it stood out a lot. But there is more good music today so the good doesn't sound as memorable.

You are old. You are balding. You are getting angry because games are not on carts and CDs have taken over.
Live versions of these songs sound close to the in-game versions:

You have so many more options now to hear various versions of the same thing with youtube. Eg two covers for Holy Orders from GuiltyGear: (one is straight copy of the videogame and another one adds more personality and more appropriate if performing for a crowd who want something a bit different)

and then you get new additions that were no there on the original since song for fighting game were limited by the short timer for each round):

The old days were shit compared to today. Gameboy and NES were shit. C64 was shit. Lynx was shit. SNES? Not shit. It had stuff as good as amiga and neogeo, but was a cheap machine and it didn't need a streaming cd which is limited because the music doesn't change based on what you are doing in-game. (as much as I love Wipeout 2097 sountrack it is just music playing from CD that you could just as easily got a seperate CD player to play while you are racing and unlike proper game music, doesn't change enough as it reacts to what you do.) Butt the stuff off of SNES sounded CD quality.

Everytime I think of C64 I am reminded of games with choppy scrolling and sluggish controls. (you couldn't wriggle the joystick to spread your fire in commando like you could in the arcade version)

We are spoilt rotten today. You get movie levels of qaulity for the background and it is interactive with what is happening in the game. Old games just had the same song repeat over and over again and loop endlessly and usually it was not in context with the thing going on in the game. (i guess it was more generic)

I often have fights with people about anime tracks too
Street Fighter animated movie (american version) had nice music but it was generic and didn't tell a story, just played dark scary music anytime m.bison was on screen.

^generic metal music is used to make bison seem menacing but it plays while ken and ryu are talking about kicking butt. Very lazy.
But the japanese one (see below) had a bromance music in the background. Sure it wasn't appropriate for americans (they are worried they might get labelled a homo for preferring softer music) but it shows more range. They were telling a story of a guy who eliminated his demons and came back from mind control ready to kill his torturer instead of think about his selfish needs to be the best fighter. (tells us more by giving different music for that bit - It's not about M.Bison it is about Ken beating the mind control so it is positive moment in the story)

It's not subjective. Some music is shittier because it's lazy. It was done to appeal to a certain crowd that it was marketed to, (probably dragon ball z crowd) but at the sacrifice of being good. (not cool, but good because it serves the purpose the creator had intended without the filter/censor)

One of the reason I miss older Elder Scrolls games is simply because of the sheer volume of different music that plays depending on the situation. You get more generic music in the newer ones which although good on their own, drag the overall game down a bit because it doesn't always suit the situation you are in. (Not that I like the old shit midi music from old elder scrolls due to nostalgia over orchestral more. It's more that since the music changes according to what is happening to you onscreen, it actually serves a purpose and affects how you feel at that point too. Eg sneaky music playing at nighttime while you move about or spooky music for dungeons, or gentle music when the weather changes and it rains as you are on your journey to a town etc) In the case of Elder Scrolls, the older games whih had more range were better than newer since it serves a purpose to the game of immersing you more. (and not that judgement is clouded by nostalgia)

[GeneraL CyberFunK]

Aaaaaaand again with the crazy.

[t0mby]

Anyone who says the C64 was shit has obviously been brainwashed by the Lizardmen to try and get us to only embrace new technology. Technology that can be tracked by the NSA and Lizardmen.

[GeneraL CyberFunK]

FACT

[GreyWizzard]

Having not owned a c64 or done a lot of c64 gaming outside of emulation I find a lot of the tunes inappropriate to the game. I think the tracks are okay for their time on that hardware but have no real emotional connection to the track. This is what gamehead brought up. Most of what you think are good tracks are more an emotional connection to that time in space.

You could call the artists chip tune pioneers but not great soundtrack designers.

[GeneraL CyberFunK]

I don't think you're really in a position to say "Most of what you think are good tracks are more an emotional connection to that time in space" since you never owned or had much interest or experience with the platform.
t0mby and I could list of a long list of games that have excellent, appropriate tunes for that particular game. Turbo Outrun, Mega Apocalypse, Monty on the Run, Parallax, Double Take, Wizball... so many games and so many games and composers that have stood the test of time. Symphony orchestras done for a selection of games... yes there is nostalgia but there is also critical acclaim for these artists and remember.. he's comparing these artists and their compositions to NES chip music and SNES?

He's deluded.

[GreyWizzard]

I watch footage of the game and listen to the music and hear no real connection. It's just a bit of music. Sure you can say it's a good bit of music but it's not evoking the ideas seen on the screen. That's nit good game music, it's just good music in general. If you were playing those games in your youth of course these tracks are going to stand out for you. But if you never played them you are left wondering why they decided to pair certain tracks with games. The nostalgia factor will play a big part in what you think is a great video game track.

[GeneraL CyberFunK]

Riiight so you watched the game... didn't actually play it.. and it's just a bit of music. So for games like Wizball... Monty on the Run.. Turbo Outrun, Delta... did you actually listen to it all.. like someone would have if they were playing the game?

If you cast your eyes back to the original point of contention:

People who listen to c64 music need to understand that whatever was done back then could easily be done better today with SNES music chip.

GameHED is comparing music that has never been on both platforms... it's a stupid comparison.

And I don't think it's really fair for you to go back and critique games that are 20+yrs old when you're not exactly unbiased... you never heard the music back then in comparison to NES and SNES at the time... so of course your perception is going to be skewed. Furthermore, it's about music composition and the 4 channels that the c64 composers worked with and still work with is impressive in how they max the SID chip out to get what they could. I mean fuck... you went back and listened to c64 game music on youtube.. probably not even the good ones since you feel they were inappropriate.. the music for MVC2 was inappropriate but it was still great and worked.

If those composers were given more channels like they had on the SNES.. well of course the sound would be better but you know what? I'd be wondering if the music would be the same in it's composition. I doubt it and when when you've actually composed music yourself (you haven't).. that can really be a factor.

Your separating good game music and good music in general is unfair for video games in general and again, missing the point of what we were arguing about in the first place.

[F for Fake]

Perhaps the greatest thing ever.

Typed out a reply asking how the hell I knew that song so damn well when I only ever played a bit of Space Harrier in Shenmue. Remembered just before pressing "submit" that it's used as the stage music for the Sega tribute stage in Sonic & All Star racing transformed. Sweet track, and I love that Daytona dude.

[t0mby]

t0mby and I could list of a long list of games that have excellent, appropriate tunes for that particular game.

Amen brother, preach it!

Grey, your comparing emotional connection to the music based on the last 15-20yrs when gaming had involved. Music wasn't considered that way back then for games in the same sense you describe, but for those that did experience the games in the day the music was quite fitting. Also because of the limitations of the chip it was difficult to have sound effects and music working together and for the games that did that there was always a channel of sound sacrificed, such as a back beat for a sound effect.

I can name two off the top of my head that I think would be prime examples of music that suits the game, look up the C64 versions of Ghosts 'n Goblins, and Commando. Or, I don't know how it stands up as it's pretty rough but Forbidden Forest, a game that was regarded as the first (lite) survival horror game.

[GreyWizzard]

Celebrate 25 years of Game Boy

http://gameboy25.ocremix.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GameHED]

t0mby and I could list of a long list of games that have excellent, appropriate tunes for that particular game.

Amen brother, preach it!

Grey, your comparing emotional connection to the music based on the last 15-20yrs when gaming had involved. Music wasn't considered that way back then for games in the same sense you describe, but for those that did experience the games in the day the music was quite fitting. Also because of the limitations of the chip it was difficult to have sound effects and music working together and for the games that did that there was always a channel of sound sacrificed, such as a back beat for a sound effect.

I can name two off the top of my head that I think would be prime examples of music that suits the game, look up the C64 versions of Ghosts 'n Goblins, and Commando. Or, I don't know how it stands up as it's pretty rough but Forbidden Forest, a game that was regarded as the first (lite) survival horror game.

Music from SNES >>>>> music from c64

You attacked orchestral music. Listen to daggerfall from 1996:

now listen to john williams "across the stars" from star wars episode 2 (the bloody reptilians obviously stole from daggerfall because it is such a great game ):

Games have evolved so much. Stuff from the past was sucky with a few rare exceptions. You mean to tell me that if given the choice between midi that sounds like full orchestra vs blip and bloop sounds made to sound a little bit like the thing we call instruments, you'd go for the bloops and bleeps? You make me sick and want to remind you that amiga was way better but you probably want to disagree for the fun of it. We are spoiled with these epic movie quality songs as background music and you go on about how cool chip tunes even though c64 was trying its hardest not to sound like bloops and bleeps and was not intending to sound electronic at all, ...but failed and DID sound like crappy computer noises and not music instruments. Just because you like crappy midi doesn't mean it's good because you have bad taste. The SNES was a huge move away from non-epic background music of c64. Many JRPG could finally have nice themes for the characters and even make you care about the story thanks to the power of the music in them.

Imagine if george lucas made a movie based on daggerfall? Videogames with good soundtracks obviously influence the movie creators a lot for them to steal off of them.

daggerfall theme tune 1996!! Across the Stars came out half a decade later to catch up to daggerfall. Don't make me laugh and say bloops and bleeps are better tha these great epic midi music on non-64 platforms. c64 has been surpassed. Yes it was hard to get music to sound good due to limits, which is why we say the music was crap generally. It took people with talent to waste time because the limits affect what stuff you could hear. (ie no epic themes that sound like something from a big budget movie)

[GameHED]

I don't think you're really in a position to say "Most of what you think are good tracks are more an emotional connection to that time in space" since you never owned or had much interest or experience with the platform.
t0mby and I could list of a long list of games that have excellent, appropriate tunes for that particular game. Turbo Outrun, Mega Apocalypse, Monty on the Run, Parallax, Double Take, Wizball... so many games and so many games and composers that have stood the test of time. Symphony orchestras done for a selection of games... yes there is nostalgia but there is also critical acclaim for these artists and remember.. he's comparing these artists and their compositions to NES chip music and SNES?

He's deluded.

Anything the shit c64 can do the SNES could do much much better.

The talented guys who composed great c64 music would agree with me. You guys are fucking idiots pissing against the wind. I like and have listened to a lot of c64 (more than you). It's not relevent today. Only to a bunch of nerds who remember the machine when they were younger. It's like trying to compare master system to the amiga 500. There is NO competition. Old shit does not suddenly rule because old shit sounds 'good for its time'. That old stuff if redone on better machines is going to be miles better because the more modern stuff is closer to the real instruments. Some people just want the old stuff because it reminds them of a time when we had really low expectations so that when something good DID come out that sounded nice, it stood out like a sore thumb. But today we have a much higher expectation so we don't think the midi of now is worth hyping because we raised our standards.

can your c64 recreate epic battle music and tell a story with just the music? (SNES could)


Outrun on GBA (usually the music is atrocious in most gba games):

no need for annoying bleeps and blips ...Just recreate what is intended.

top 10 amiga music: