Madmya wrote:GeneraL CyberFunK wrote:If we actually looked at what the majority of Australians wanted and just did it..
Like... a plebiscite?
The LNP went to the most recent election with numerous proposed directives and polices. The plebiscite was just one of them and to be honest - for most Australians it would have been a very minor issue that wouldn't have swayed their vote. There were far more important policies to consider.
Just because you vote for a party does not automatically mean you agree with every single policy proposal they bring to an election. That's like saying for you to like someone.. you simply must like every single thing about them.
Cletus wrote:I don't get the suicide angle though. Is it because a legal document describing a marriage would need to describe an assigned sex to each party? Or is it the idea implanted by Bill Shorten that there'd be a grass roots uprising of homophobic Australians desperate to fill every corner of the country with hatred? I think if that were the case, there would already be a lot of anti marriage reform propaganda on FB or you know, anywhere (only anti plebiscite stuff).. But that hasn't happened. Well, not that I know of so forgive me if I never saw anything like that from my very diverse list of internet contacts. The only place something like that could get mass circulation and occupy any space that draws attention would be news and social media sites. And there's no way a fully fuelled hate campaign would get a foothold on the majority or any of the massively frequented sites. You know what will increase suicides? Getting married.
For me, the situation was that for the first time ever, a government was willing to ask the public if it was grown up enough to see two people of the same sex and yes we mean men you idiots, kiss and get married and hold hands in public and be free like everyone else. I wasn't surprised when Gillard didn't just do it. But I'm actually ashamed that this opportunity is gone. I had faith in the people. I really did. And it wasn't even an us versus them deal, everyone could "vote", LGBTQ weren't excluded from that.
And here's a thing that has occurred to me as we discuss.. Labor are in bed with Islam. Those votes count. The voting proportion of the 2.2% of islamic Australians would have overwhelmingly voted against reform. And Labor can't afford to lose that vote. Effectively, Shorten has ended any chance of progress and made it someone, no everyone else's fault and kept in line with the ideology Islam. Call me crazy, but....Bill Slimeten. Wow is he a slime.
I think Both Maddy and Elf are right too. They wouldn't have acted immediately, it's unnecessary but eventually they would have acted due to the decisive result.
I actually have faith that the majority of Australians would say yes to same sex marriage. I have no faith that the LNP would go through with it since they have MPs who have specifically said they would ignore the result of the plebiscite. This tells you a lot about the use of a plebiscite. There are numerous public opinion polls that indicate that the majority of Australians are okay with it yet our government wishes to spend $160 million on it.. and even then.. it isn't even binding? Put that 160 million into hospitals or renewables research.. funding for stopping domestic violence. A plebiscite is a waste of money.
As for the suicide angle?
I've seen and heard some horrible things regarding the anti-same sex marriage campaign. You just have to go and look at places like the ACL and the Australian Marriage sites.
I read these sites and think that these fuckwits are just that - fuckwits. The issue though is that we already have teens committing suicide regarding their sexuality and uncertainty about their life in general. Vulnerable and scared teens. I wouldn't have ever dared come out in highschool simply because of the bullying and fear I would have had to endure. Highschool is still pretty fucking terrible. Maybe not as bad as I had it and definitely not has bad compared to the decades before my time. Having young kids learning about who they are and then having to deal with this sort of thing?
I know of one guy who killed himself while I was at school. You are a parent of a son - If he grew up to and was gay - would you want him exposed to the bullying and hurt that comes from this topic? No. You'd be protective and you would want to make sure he never feared for his safety and that he didn't have to be picked on, often relentlessly.
When I was in Uni.. I was that cut up about it all.. I did consider ending it all. I hated that I was different and that difference meant I had to be on guard all the time and having to constantly guard the real you from all the horrible bullying and negative comments - it wears you down. I've grown and learnt from it all.. and I know now that I am very strong. I recognise that not everyone is as strong as I am though - and if I'm strong and I still went through a very dark patch like I did.. what of those who aren't as strong? How far will they go?
To be completely honest - because this doesn't directly affect you - you don't quite feel the reach of it all. A couple of dead gay kids a year won't sting you as much as it stings me - why? Because I've been there.. on that proverbial edge. The idea of more dead gay kids/adults is collateral damage that again - you are unlikely to feel the impact of. We have more than enough issues with mental health in this country - While I'd cope fine.. I am very aware that not everyone will handle it as well I will now.
The anti-same-sex marriage campaign will likely allow dredge up some very low and horrible people and their opinions. Kinda like the Reclaim Australia stuff. Being told you are incapable of loving a child and raising it to be a good and well adjusted human being.. it's bullshit.