Sonic Mania Plus! Sonic Mania Adventures!!

[Deef]

I'd be surprised if anyone really thought that was a concern here. Despite the Sonic fanboy filling my posts I'm still I'm still as jaded as it gets, and this comes off looking fine.

Ray & Mighty were a pretty clever addition, managing to hit nostalgic and refreshing in one move. Compare that to the feeling of if they had added Metal Sonic instead, or Amy. Zzz.

[unfnknblvbl]

Cool so now they're adding in friends - time to check back out of the Sonic hotel for another 25 years.

My thoughts exactly. Is Taxman as involved with this one? I wonder...

[Madmya]

I can't work out if I should be looking forward to this or not. I will probably only buy if there's a cheap upgrade option.

[Deef]

Well colour me surprised then.
The plague of Sonic and his crappy friends was never about an expanding roster. It was always about forced left-side gameplay styles carried by woeful dialog/characterisation. Big, Rouge, Silver, Amy.. that list is endless. The bit that surprises me is that people here didn't already think that. I'm now expecting you guys to say that Sonic is all about speed.

@Madz
I wrote so much misguided response here before.

In short, yeah there's a $5 USD upgrade option on all platforms. Don't know what that will be in AUD.
The physical console versions will be $50 in Australia (on EB's site already).

[unfnknblvbl]

Well colour me surprised then.
The plague of Sonic and his crappy friends was never about an expanding roster. It was always about forced left-side gameplay styles carried by woeful dialog/characterisation. Big, Rouge, Silver, Amy.. that list is endless. The bit that surprises me is that people here didn't already think that. I'm now expecting you guys to say that Sonic is all about speed.

If that were the case, we'd have all loved the Sonic Advance games. Sure, they weren't bad games, but everybody is kinda sick of the ever-expanding roster.
I'd happily give Sega a bunch of money for a proper Sonic Mania expansion pack with more levels, but I'm a bit wary of doing so for a pair of new characters that had almost nothing to do with any of the "classic" Sonic games

[Deef]

I was going to reference those games for the same reason.. in reverse. I had never heard anyone complaining about the extra characters in the Advance games. (Or Chaotix.)

There are plenty of other reasons people dislike (and sometimes like) the Advance games. (Or Chaotix). "This game has a silent and optional new character" was never one I noticed. But fair enough others get different impressions; just surprised.

[Candy Arse]

I loved Sonic Rush.

[Deef]

Part 2 is up.

Sega Saturn menu at 1:05?

Different stage palettes in the credits.

[Deef]

Next!

Seriously these animations are so good. I want 20 minutes stories of these. Every Saturday morning.

[GameHED]

I was going to reference those games for the same reason.. in reverse. I had never heard anyone complaining about the extra characters in the Advance games. (Or Chaotix.)

There are plenty of other reasons people dislike (and sometimes like) the Advance games. (Or Chaotix). "This game has a silent and optional new character" was never one I noticed. But fair enough others get different impressions; just surprised.

I think whenever new characters are added they should be the minigame section of a game. Yoshi appearing in Mario World would be a good example. He ended up being a gimmick for mario's gameplay to expand upon but it didn't affect the feel of the game itself much. Eventually Yoshi got his own games. That's what Sega should understand. Stop thinking of them as characters but as play mechanic additions to an existing base that enhances the original character's options.

Same with Megaman X games. When they introduce Megaman Zero he is just the upgraded equivalent of megaman so when you finally get your cool upgrade armor you know what it feels like to be a bad ass and it doesn't change the core of what the game is about which is avoiding danger, shooting things and killing a boss by memorising his patterns and stealing all his powers. Eventually Megaman Zero got his own games as he was popular enough to people who like beam sabers and gundam shows. You let the new character be the expansion to the core game. They are not characters like you think of in stories but vehicles to show new gimmicks that enhance the existing core.
You can't dodge for instance if you didn't get the special armor boots for megaman x and that changes how you fight things. Adding a new dimension to the players method of beating up the bad guys or speed running a level so you can get past boring parts by dash jumping over things instead of having to kill them all the time. It's more of the same basic thing but enhanced. Not a seperate things forced into the main game just to force players to like characters. You should not have to like them. You should be playing a game and liking the gimmick enough to check out the sequel. (as yoshi has done by letting you fart out eggs and chuck shit at people like a monkey throwing poo at you when you go to the zoo or it masturbates in front of kids. The novelty should never get old. It should enhance a core mechanic in an interesting way to give you options to do new things that you couldn't do before) When you finally get used to dash-wall jumping, homing missiles have trouble tracking the target and you feel a sense of freedom you didn't have before and the game opens up new possibilities that were not there when you were not a bad ass. But the physics of the game still remain so it doesn't feel like you were cheated of core gameplay. (problem of other games is that skill was removed from jumping which ruins core gameplay addiction to 'try again until you get it')

New character often can mean 'new boring addition that I'm forced to take part in to complete the game' and that's a danger. If you aren't prepared to buy a game based on that stand-alone character, chances are you are not having much fun with the gimmick he adds to the core. The treasure tracker mini game in the main mario titles is an example of fun-enough shit that started out as minigame but then got a stand alone title because people wanted more of that. But its inclusion doesn't rob the limelight of the core game. People who bought mario expect a certain thing from it. So it can be risky. Yoshi in Mario World was not risky. You could use Yoshi to jump, then jump again off of his back mid-air to jump to higher place to get a coin that was too high for you to jump if you didn't have him to ride on top of which makes him useful to enhance existing character a bit. Still sticks to the formula of jumping without changing the physics or core mechanics. It doesn't feel artificially added in, but rather an expansion of existing play mechanics. Guys at sega need to remember what the early 1990s was about: things you did were not about making interesting stories but making the gameplay more complex and rich and then a story was created to justify why the character was included. (it's the opposite of today where it's like they just put character there because they think they have to expand a universe to make an interesting story because games have gone big budget now after Metal Gear and Resident Evil began the trend of cinematic style gaming, and JRPG games became more mainstream IE Final Fantasy 7. Meanwhile games like Castlevania Symphony of the Night with simple 2d style presentation were on the way out. )

One of the reasons people like Monster Hunter I think is because it reminds us all of a time in japanese gaming when story and characters took a back seat to just playing the game and seeing if you could do something within limits and refining your skill to see the next part of the game. People miss that because they grew up as kids playing wonder boy, mario, sonic etc which addicted you because the less you played, the more rusty your skills got, (challenge is relative to your ability as a player not how much money you spend like todays titles) and you could come back to them years later* worse at the game as an adult than when you were a kid playing them hardcore. That's the sign of a complex game which focuses on skill not on flash. The hardcore and retro gamers who remember the 1990s platform games is why people get angry at things like "games winning themselves" in modern day. (eg GTA5 letting you skip the gameplay if you fail a mission enough times lol, or regenerating health in games where you are not master chief with shield technology to explain why its there. IE old games punished you for inconsistency so you had to go find stashes of health pack to win without anything called checkpoints to give you full health for free and removing consequences for bad skills. Goldeneye being one example where body armor is hidden in level. The realism of dying made you do better and it was not an option to get better. You had to get better to win.)

*recently tried to play Super Mario Bros again and it is handing me my arse because I am so out of practice.

[Deef]

I'm half guessing, half hoping, that Mania Plus will have a complete end boss upgrade. It was the one thing Mania unquestionably dropped the ball on compared to S3&K.

I can't really remember Mighty's moves in Chaotix (and am too lazy to google), but I was pretty sure he didn't have that ground-pound looking thing. He grabbed walls I'm pretty sure. Mighty looks cool for being OP strong, but not much character in there otherwise. Ray definitely more fun to see so far. Only 1 more of these to go... sad... they really are quality. You can easily tell that they're not just being pumped out.

Looking forward to Mania Plus because fanboy, but ultimately I know that there's a good number of the zones I won't even want to bother playing. I was over the rehashing before Mania; even my hoped-for HZ and SSZ that made it in were disappointing. I could give all the levels a run through to find the new parts, except I might not even be able to tell them from the old parts.

Hmm... I hope they've also fixed the bonus stages, so that they're actually useful in your game.

<list of other hopes here>

[unfnknblvbl]

I'd like to see Taxman & Co. given carte blanche with a whole new game. Their remixes of existing levels are great, but they clearly have what it takes to do an original game from scratch.

[Froggy]

I saw Sonic Mania at my Target today.. not sure if it's new but hadn't seen a hard copy of it before?

[Froggy]

Sonic Mania Plus it was on a quick search and if I recall I think it was 39.95 so a good price too.

[Hercy]

Sonic Mania was always a budget title. It was $25 at release, although obviously Plus has more content.

[Froggy]

Yeah I get that just I didn't think it had a physical release.

[Deef]

God dammit. That's what I get for pre-ordering.
Waiting for mine in the mail.

Yeah, Mania Plus has a physical release, a collectors thing with an artbook and a reversible oldschool Megadrive cover. It's $50 everywhere else I've seen, so that's weird to see it for $40.

[Froggy]

God dammit. That's what I get for pre-ordering.
Waiting for mine in the mail.

Yeah, Mania Plus has a physical release, a collectors thing with an artbook and a reversible oldschool Megadrive cover. It's $50 everywhere else I've seen, so that's weird to see it for $40.

I'll have a look again when I'm next into work and not home with man flu

[Deef]

Well, my copy did arrive today so props to JB for posting it early and by courier.

I have to admit, I was pleasantly surprised.
What I expected was pretty much what we knew already; recoloured levels, a few new secret paths, fixed up cutscenes, and the new characters.
And what I conservatively hoped for was some much needed end-game boss improvement, some reworking of the never-play-again bonus stages, and... just something else decent, I didn't know what.

What I didn't expect was the completely overhauled lives mechanic that is Encore Mode. That is almost single-handedly what makes the game for me.

I also didn't expect that I'd actually like some of the recoloured zones. I was thinking they'd all look tacky, and a good number of them still do, but I'd say about 50% of the recolours are as pleasing as the originals, with a good handful looking much better. Oil Ocean in particular is possibly something I'll enjoy playing, Press Garden 1 looks a bit less like a fangame, but the Hydrocity 1 palette has to be the winner out of all 50 acts.

And I didn't expect they'd take my hope about bonus stages so seriously. I don't know if you can even access Blue Spheres during an act anymore; it appears to have been completely replaced by the new pinball bonus stage.

Which brings me to the last part I didn't expect: 7 new special stages. I had just never thought of it so I was really happy to discover a new one... 4 zones into the game. Mania's special stages are quite simply my favourite of all Sonic special stages, so that's something I look forward to completing.

So they're the main parts of my impression. The new lives mechanic, several of the new zone palettes, and the new special stages are all really good stuff.
I intend to flesh this out more later when I'm not falling asleep.

Um... random bullet points:
* The new special stages are really hidden, in new locations
* And they're a biiig jump in difficultly. I've had about 7 attempts; can't even get the first one yet.
* You can now set options like "& Knuckles" or insta-shield on any game, save or no save.


A few disappointments:
* Encore Mode can't be played by 2 people. In fact, Tails can't even airlift Sonic in it.
* Similarly, none of the Encore zones made it to competition mode, which is a shame and a waste of content imo.
* The insta-shield wasn't fixed.
* Not enough save slots anymore!



(The end boss upgrade appears to have been done too. I've finished Encore Mode but haven't seen this new boss yet, but the game teases it strongly so I'd call it a sure thing.)

[Deef]

Here's the final episode:

And Mania Plus is now on Steam for $5 if you already have Mania.
You have to go into the game itself and select DLC from the game's main menu screen.


They fixed leaderboards, woo.

[Deef]

$5 vs $50

I should say that it's definitely worth $5 if you already have Mania and did enjoy it. The most meaningful rewards for your $5 are:
:: The new lives mechanic that incorporates all 5 characters.
:: Surprisingly, the altered levels also. I don't want to overstate it but the changes genuinely did lift some zones out of the 'eh' taste Mania left me with. One zone also has a new act, and it's possibly the best in the game.
:: The seven new special stages. If you're like me and really approved of Mania's special stages you'd be happy to get this new set. And they are freaking hard, which is awesome.

With the collectible copy, physical + artbook + fancy cover isn't worth $50 if you're already $5 away from the digital upgrade. So either you already know you'll get it, or you won't. The artbook is nice, but it really should have been a physically bigger book. So the most meaningful thing about the physical copy is still just the "physical".

But if you liked Mania, yeah definitely get the DLC. It's refreshing in the ways that make it worth it.



Yeah... it's going to be easier for me to just write in sections again.

[Rorschach]

Bought the DLC to complete the package even though yet to finish the main game.

[unfnknblvbl]

I'm very happy to be wrong about Sonic Mania Plus.

Also very happy that it's a $5 DLC

[Deef]

Have you met the brick wall that is the 7 new special stages yet?

Related news, there's apparently no new end boss. :/ That's a downer; disappointing because I thought that was the most glaring "doesn't beat Sonic 3" that I thought they'd want to address. So the robot you see being built, I'm not sure what it is. Maybe it's the body of TMZ.